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What privacy do you think you’re giving up by using an application? The hotel may find out you are staying there and when you come into your room - ie something

What privacy do you think you’re giving up by using an application? The hotel may find out you are staying there and when you come into your room - ie something they already know?

Nextgrid 4y ago
It would link it to other pseudonymous identifiers that don’t (yet) know who you are but would very much like to.
- scarface74 4y ago
  And what are these “pseudononymous” identifiers that you worry about? It’s much easier to track across the web than apps. And how is installing the Hilton app going to allow another app to find out information about you?
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Web/apps have a lot of pseudonymous data points but rarely have a link to your real-life identity. Real-life things like hotels have the latter but rarely the former. Installing an app allows data brokers to bridge the two identities. > And how is installing the Hilton app going to allow another app to find out information about you? Both apps rat out whatever they have on you to a data broker which then does the matching.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Don’t be handwavy, exactly what can an installed app find out about you without you giving it explicit permission?
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
Anything and everything the app and its 30 social, ad, and analytics SDKs are able to capture and exfiltrate from the phone. Maybe they won't upload the list of my installed apps (which can leak information like religion or medical issues), maybe they won't track my location through the entire hotel (or everywhere), maybe they won't snoop on my pictures... but maybe they also will, and I don't like maybe. Almost certainly I'll have to agree to lengthy ToS that will then be used as justification to inundate me with spam. The Android permission model is particularly messed up because it changes every few SDK target versions, so it's hard to build a mental model what exactly you're allowing. Many apps that had a built-in photo-taking capability required storage access and wouldn't work without. Any app using bluetooth had to request and be granted location access (because Bluetooth could be used to track location... so any app acting as a key automatically also got to track you via GPS on top of that, and even if the app maker didn't want to they had to request the permission for Bluetooth to work). I've seen too many companies pushing their apps aggressively and with massive rewards. They're clearly getting something out of it, and probably not something I want to give them. If you're very, very lucky, the main goal is only to make them more "sticky" (make it easier to use them over someone else next time), but that's the thing - I don't want past service providers to stick to me.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > Anything and everything the app and its 30 social, ad, and analytics SDKs are able to capture and exfiltrate from the phone. I’m asking about iOS. If you have an Android device - using an operating system written by an ad tech company, the Hilton app is the last thing you should worry about. Instead of being hand wavy, what exactly do you think an analytics SDK can “exfiltrate* from your phone outside of the app sandbox without your explicit permission? > Maybe they won't upload the list of my installed apps (which can leak information like religion or medical issues), Not possible with iOS. There was a loophole that Twitter used where they would try to send a message to another app. But Apple closed that a few versions ago. > Almost certainly I'll have to agree to lengthy ToS that will then be used as justification to inundate me with spam You mean the same TOS you have to sign when booking from their website? But I use the built in “Hide My Email” feature on iOS and give each app/website that I don’t care about a separate email that gets forwarded to my main email address. > “ The Android permission model is particularly messed up because it changes every few SDK target versions, so it's hard to build a mental model what exactly you're allowing “I care about my privacy yet I use an operating system with a poor permission model written by an adTech company”
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    And what if the app asks for access to your contacts? Would you grant it out of the convenience of the app, or would you deny it permission and ask for a card key?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      No you don’t have to. When you share it, it creates a message with a link and brings up a share sheet controlled by iOS. You can then send the message block with the link either via email, text, or any other relevant third party app that registers a share extension. It is all done outside of the apps process. iOS sends the message on the apps behalf to the other app. There is no option to share your contact with the app.

What privacy do you think you’re giving up by using an application? The hotel may find out you are staying there and when you come into your room - ie something they already know?

Nextgrid 4y ago

It would link it to other pseudonymous identifiers that don’t (yet) know who you are but would very much like to.

scarface74 4y ago
And what are these “pseudononymous” identifiers that you worry about? It’s much easier to track across the web than apps. And how is installing the Hilton app going to allow another app to find out information about you?
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Web/apps have a lot of pseudonymous data points but rarely have a link to your real-life identity. Real-life things like hotels have the latter but rarely the former. Installing an app allows data brokers to bridge the two identities. > And how is installing the Hilton app going to allow another app to find out information about you? Both apps rat out whatever they have on you to a data broker which then does the matching.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Don’t be handwavy, exactly what can an installed app find out about you without you giving it explicit permission?

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago

Anything and everything the app and its 30 social, ad, and analytics SDKs are able to capture and exfiltrate from the phone. Maybe they won't upload the list of my installed apps (which can leak information like religion or medical issues), maybe they won't track my location through the entire hotel (or everywhere), maybe they won't snoop on my pictures... but maybe they also will, and I don't like maybe. Almost certainly I'll have to agree to lengthy ToS that will then be used as justification to inundate me with spam. The Android permission model is particularly messed up because it changes every few SDK target versions, so it's hard to build a mental model what exactly you're allowing. Many apps that had a built-in photo-taking capability required storage access and wouldn't work without. Any app using bluetooth had to request and be granted location access (because Bluetooth could be used to track location... so any app acting as a key automatically also got to track you via GPS on top of that, and even if the app maker didn't want to they had to request the permission for Bluetooth to work). I've seen too many companies pushing their apps aggressively and with massive rewards. They're clearly getting something out of it, and probably not something I want to give them. If you're very, very lucky, the main goal is only to make them more "sticky" (make it easier to use them over someone else next time), but that's the thing - I don't want past service providers to stick to me.

scarface74 4y ago
> Anything and everything the app and its 30 social, ad, and analytics SDKs are able to capture and exfiltrate from the phone. I’m asking about iOS. If you have an Android device - using an operating system written by an ad tech company, the Hilton app is the last thing you should worry about. Instead of being hand wavy, what exactly do you think an analytics SDK can “exfiltrate* from your phone outside of the app sandbox without your explicit permission? > Maybe they won't upload the list of my installed apps (which can leak information like religion or medical issues), Not possible with iOS. There was a loophole that Twitter used where they would try to send a message to another app. But Apple closed that a few versions ago. > Almost certainly I'll have to agree to lengthy ToS that will then be used as justification to inundate me with spam You mean the same TOS you have to sign when booking from their website? But I use the built in “Hide My Email” feature on iOS and give each app/website that I don’t care about a separate email that gets forwarded to my main email address. > “ The Android permission model is particularly messed up because it changes every few SDK target versions, so it's hard to build a mental model what exactly you're allowing “I care about my privacy yet I use an operating system with a poor permission model written by an adTech company”
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  And what if the app asks for access to your contacts? Would you grant it out of the convenience of the app, or would you deny it permission and ask for a card key?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    No you don’t have to. When you share it, it creates a message with a link and brings up a share sheet controlled by iOS. You can then send the message block with the link either via email, text, or any other relevant third party app that registers a share extension. It is all done outside of the apps process. iOS sends the message on the apps behalf to the other app. There is no option to share your contact with the app.