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What makes you think Catholic school kids don’t have parents or other relatives? And are you trying to argue that the Catholic Church does not have a history o

What makes you think Catholic school kids don’t have parents or other relatives? And are you trying to argue that the Catholic Church does not have a history of child molestation? Because the evidence seems pretty overwhelming to me.

kcplate 4y ago
Commenter makes a point about Catholic schools and where their curriculum focus is, you turn that into an indictment of the church. Second commenter again focuses on schools, you again indict the church. Everybody gets it, the Catholic Church had a scandal. It was awful and destructive to many folks and the church deserves the blame and fault for the coverup. However, that scandal doesn’t seem to have anything to do with a conversation about curriculum choices at a Catholic school. Your trying to derail a conversation because of your biases.
- salad-fan 4y ago
  Not at all. Catholic schools are not even remotely independent of the church despite what you seem to think, and therefore share the same systemic problems.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    Never said they were independent, I said the conversation was about curriculum and not church scandals. Additionally, although I don’t have the statistics, it would not surprise me one bit if pound for pound, Catholic schools were indeed safer school options for the students than a public schools despite the scandals in the Catholic Church.
    - salad-fan 4y ago
      The commenter went beyond curriculum with this part of their comment (which has since been edited to remove the word “woke”, I might add): > All of the politics and social justice, whatever you want to call is not part of the curriculum. I feel bad for people whose kids are forced into this nonsense.
      - kcplate 4y ago
        I don’t read it thst way at all, and frankly with woke or not it seems to be a valid point in the discussion which centers around that very concept of the administrators and educators possibly placing their thumb on the scale. And I still don’t see how that is an entrance ramp to trying to shutdown the point they were making by laying some “invalid due to guilt by association”point. Just my opinion.
        salad-fan 4y ago
        You not only misread what they wrote, you misread what I wrote. I wasn’t saying the original commenter was “guilty by association”, I was pushing back on their “anti-wokenes” nonsense and pointing out that their choice of schooling isn’t without serious issues of its own.
        ipaddr 4y ago
        Is that what caused you to ignore facts and logic while you increasingly get more emotional? You were hurt when the original commenter said those school have less wokeness. You strongly believe in social justice and concern yourself woke. You don't defend your social wokeness by putting someone else down. If social wokeness is all you think it is then let it standup on its own merits and present discussion around why it is better than less wokeness or no wokeness at all. This is a conversation about one topic that you decided needed to be used a prop to push another idea. You are not living up to the wokeness ideals you seek to defend by doing this. Perhaps a tiktok video where you dance around a painting of the word wokeness would further your point more than putting down another group.
        salad-fan 4y ago
        Oh I’m sorry I thought we were having a grown up conversation. Have a nice day.
        ipaddr 4y ago
ipaddr 4y ago
I'm making the point the public system has a worse record on the subject. And any child is safer at school compared to your home. It is shocking when a priest who takes vows then breaks them and commits such acts. It is less shocking to find out a teacher is going out with a student or texting naked photos. The first is forbidden and taboo and brings great shame by society. The second is at times encouraged by popular culture when the genders are reversed (female teacher / male student) but is a crime. Your kid is more likely to have this happen outside of the Catholic system. Your feelings about the church overshadows reality be reenforces how much of a taboo a priest having any form of sexual pleasure is.
- salad-fan 4y ago
  > I'm making the point the public system has a worse record on the subject. Source? > The second [teacher / student relationships] is at times encouraged by popular culture when the genders are reversed (female teacher / male student) Do you have any evidence of this? I have never ever heard anyone seriously encouraging relationships between adults and minors, or between someone in a position of authority with someone they have authority over. But then I only started school in the 1970s, so perhaps these things were acceptable in an earlier era or in a country that I’m unfamiliar with. Regardless, today such things are absolutely unacceptable, and as someone who currently works in high school sports I can state from first hand experience just how seriously such matters are taken. > Your feelings about the church overshadows reality be reenforces how much of a taboo a priest having any form of sexual pleasure is. I have no “feelings” about the Catholic Church, beyond what the evidence has shown them to be. And their systematic child abuse, in many countries and for many MANY years, is a matter of public record.
  - fjord788 4y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6026962/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6026962/ > It should be noted that while childhood sexual abuse by Catholic clergy has received extensive media coverage, childhood sexual abuse by teachers and others is also a serious problem. Charol Shakeshaft, who has done extensive research on the problem of sexual abuse of students by teachers, recognizes the difficulty of collecting solid data on sexual abuse; but using available studies, she estimates that “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than one hundred times the abuse by priests.” According to Shakeshaft's research, even when abuse was reported to school officials the offenders were not reported to the police. In her study of 225 cases in New York, “none of the abusers were reported to authorities and only 1 percent lost their license to teach.” https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna21392345 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna21392345 https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03 https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-... https://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/sexual-abuse-teachers/ https://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/sexual-abuse-teachers/ https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/17/child-sexual-abuse-in-schools-often-an-open-secret-says-inquiry https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/17/child-sexual...
fjord788 4y ago
> What makes you think Catholic school kids don’t have parents or other relatives? > And are you trying to argue that the Catholic Church does not have a history of child molestation? Work on your reading comprehension instead of hallucinating things no one said.
- salad-fan 4y ago
  [flagged]

kcplate 4y ago

Commenter makes a point about Catholic schools and where their curriculum focus is, you turn that into an indictment of the church. Second commenter again focuses on schools, you again indict the church. Everybody gets it, the Catholic Church had a scandal. It was awful and destructive to many folks and the church deserves the blame and fault for the coverup. However, that scandal doesn’t seem to have anything to do with a conversation about curriculum choices at a Catholic school. Your trying to derail a conversation because of your biases.

salad-fan 4y ago
Not at all. Catholic schools are not even remotely independent of the church despite what you seem to think, and therefore share the same systemic problems.
- kcplate 4y ago
  Never said they were independent, I said the conversation was about curriculum and not church scandals. Additionally, although I don’t have the statistics, it would not surprise me one bit if pound for pound, Catholic schools were indeed safer school options for the students than a public schools despite the scandals in the Catholic Church.
  - salad-fan 4y ago
    The commenter went beyond curriculum with this part of their comment (which has since been edited to remove the word “woke”, I might add): > All of the politics and social justice, whatever you want to call is not part of the curriculum. I feel bad for people whose kids are forced into this nonsense.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      I don’t read it thst way at all, and frankly with woke or not it seems to be a valid point in the discussion which centers around that very concept of the administrators and educators possibly placing their thumb on the scale. And I still don’t see how that is an entrance ramp to trying to shutdown the point they were making by laying some “invalid due to guilt by association”point. Just my opinion.
      - salad-fan 4y ago
        You not only misread what they wrote, you misread what I wrote. I wasn’t saying the original commenter was “guilty by association”, I was pushing back on their “anti-wokenes” nonsense and pointing out that their choice of schooling isn’t without serious issues of its own.
        ipaddr 4y ago
        Is that what caused you to ignore facts and logic while you increasingly get more emotional? You were hurt when the original commenter said those school have less wokeness. You strongly believe in social justice and concern yourself woke. You don't defend your social wokeness by putting someone else down. If social wokeness is all you think it is then let it standup on its own merits and present discussion around why it is better than less wokeness or no wokeness at all. This is a conversation about one topic that you decided needed to be used a prop to push another idea. You are not living up to the wokeness ideals you seek to defend by doing this. Perhaps a tiktok video where you dance around a painting of the word wokeness would further your point more than putting down another group.
        salad-fan 4y ago
        Oh I’m sorry I thought we were having a grown up conversation. Have a nice day.
        ipaddr 4y ago

ipaddr 4y ago

I'm making the point the public system has a worse record on the subject. And any child is safer at school compared to your home. It is shocking when a priest who takes vows then breaks them and commits such acts. It is less shocking to find out a teacher is going out with a student or texting naked photos. The first is forbidden and taboo and brings great shame by society. The second is at times encouraged by popular culture when the genders are reversed (female teacher / male student) but is a crime. Your kid is more likely to have this happen outside of the Catholic system. Your feelings about the church overshadows reality be reenforces how much of a taboo a priest having any form of sexual pleasure is.

salad-fan 4y ago
> I'm making the point the public system has a worse record on the subject. Source? > The second [teacher / student relationships] is at times encouraged by popular culture when the genders are reversed (female teacher / male student) Do you have any evidence of this? I have never ever heard anyone seriously encouraging relationships between adults and minors, or between someone in a position of authority with someone they have authority over. But then I only started school in the 1970s, so perhaps these things were acceptable in an earlier era or in a country that I’m unfamiliar with. Regardless, today such things are absolutely unacceptable, and as someone who currently works in high school sports I can state from first hand experience just how seriously such matters are taken. > Your feelings about the church overshadows reality be reenforces how much of a taboo a priest having any form of sexual pleasure is. I have no “feelings” about the Catholic Church, beyond what the evidence has shown them to be. And their systematic child abuse, in many countries and for many MANY years, is a matter of public record.
- fjord788 4y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6026962/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6026962/ > It should be noted that while childhood sexual abuse by Catholic clergy has received extensive media coverage, childhood sexual abuse by teachers and others is also a serious problem. Charol Shakeshaft, who has done extensive research on the problem of sexual abuse of students by teachers, recognizes the difficulty of collecting solid data on sexual abuse; but using available studies, she estimates that “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than one hundred times the abuse by priests.” According to Shakeshaft's research, even when abuse was reported to school officials the offenders were not reported to the police. In her study of 225 cases in New York, “none of the abusers were reported to authorities and only 1 percent lost their license to teach.” https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna21392345 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna21392345 https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03 https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-... https://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/sexual-abuse-teachers/ https://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/sexual-abuse-teachers/ https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/17/child-sexual-abuse-in-schools-often-an-open-secret-says-inquiry https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/17/child-sexual...

fjord788 4y ago

> What makes you think Catholic school kids don’t have parents or other relatives? > And are you trying to argue that the Catholic Church does not have a history of child molestation? Work on your reading comprehension instead of hallucinating things no one said.

salad-fan 4y ago
[flagged]