4 ms·

Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Usually this stuff takes forever as evidence is carefully gathered. Curious if anyone has any insig

Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Usually this stuff takes forever as evidence is carefully gathered. Curious if anyone has any insights here.

RhodesianHunter 4y ago
I'm going to guess plea deals.
egl2021 4y ago
Likely the prosecution's case is strong, e.g. there is a hard-to-disguise paper trail that clearly implicates these first cooperators.
ttul 4y ago
Literally because they have found two cooperating witnesses, who have provided much of the information prosecutors need to convict Mr. SBF.
akerl_ 4y ago
This is what happens when your top lieutenants flip on you for plea deals and you provide the government piles of evidence by doing continuous media interviews and your attempts to disguise your fraud amount to saying "crypto" while you wave your hands.
LastTrain 4y ago
Because there is an administration in power that is more willing to prioritize prosecuting financial crimes.
- michaelteter 4y ago
  Not necessarily disuputing this, but do you have anything to back up this claim?
- andirk 4y ago
  And the previous administration never prosecuted any financial crimes, especially not Elizabth Holmes, right? "In June 2018, Theranos announced that Holmes was stepping down as CEO. On the same day, the Department of Justice announced that a federal grand jury had charged Holmes, along with Balwani, with nine counts of wire fraud and two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud." [0] [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabeth-holmes-life-story-bio-2018-4#in-june-2018-theranos-announced-that-holmes-was-stepping-down-as-ceo-on-the-same-day-the-department-of-justice-announced-that-a-federal-grand-jury-had-charged-holmes-along-with-balwani-with-nine-counts-of-wire-fraud-and-two-counts-of-conspiracy-to-commit-wire-fraud-39 https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabe...
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    In 2018, Elizabeth Holmes has the misfortune of having multiple cabinet members, Presidental ally Rupert Murdoch and Republican stalwarts like Kissinger and former Senators among her defrauded investors. Other than Theranos there was little financial crime prosecution.
    - from 4y ago
      It is true that white collar prosecutions have declined but this is part of a long running trend (https://www.vox.com/2015/8/5/9099935/federal-white-collar-crime-prosecution-data https://www.vox.com/2015/8/5/9099935/federal-white-collar-cr..., https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/514/ https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/514/). It is also true that the former president was on the record as against the FCPA but there were more enforcement actions in his term than most other presidents (https://www.gibsondunn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Chart2-FCPAEnforcement.jpg https://www.gibsondunn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Chart2...). If there is any increase this year it's likely going to be due to a bunch of low hanging fruit PPP fraud cases.
- gadders 4y ago
  And all the donation cheques bounced.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwawaylinux 4y ago
Since everybody else is guessing, I'll guess because it's politically inconvenient for powerful people and they'd like this to be wrapped up next year and keep the investigation as quick and narrow as possible.
bhouston 4y ago
And why no charges for Celcius and other ponzis? Are they harder to prove fraud?
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Because two people near the top of the conspiracy, with broad knowledge of its details and where the supporting evidence is, have decided to fully cooperate. And because SBF likes to talk and told his (original) lawyers to, as he tells it, “go fuck themselves” when they advised him to stop publicly confessing his crimes.
shapefrog 4y ago
Despite the smoke and mirrors it is actually an incredibly basic crime to unravel. In the modern era of email / slack / whatever - every smoking gun piece of evidence is a ctrl-f away. SBF is publicly testifying and pointing to where the bodies are buried, FTX the company is cooperating and co-conspirators are cooperating.
- salawat 4y ago
  You'll be surprised how ephemeral things can be, and many more controversial white collar communication conventions develop to avoid the "on paper" evidence trail. Half of keeping your nose clean and keeping people accountable is cornering them into reading/writing something. This is a great way to make yourself nobody's friend, but also a good weapon for halting something by refusing to do it without getting it in writing first.
LatteLazy 4y ago
Some crimes are inherently hard to prosecute. Fraud for instance requires you to prove intent. International fraud is a mine field of overlapping jurisdictions and definitions and legal systems etc. Other crimes are very easy: misleading (prospective) investors just requires that you fail to disclose something. No need to prove intent, even something very small will do. And as long as there is at least some connection to the US, US courts will hear the case. Prosecuting SBF for defrauding customers would take years. But getting him for failure to disclose to investors (which seems to be what they're after) is really easy. So they're powering through. They also now have 2 co-operating witnesses.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
A couple weeks ago you had people here asking why they were moving forward so slowly.
temp2022acc 4y ago
This time SBF just kinda dumped a huge bag full of evidence on the Justice department's doorstep like it was an early christmas present. The trial is going to be hilarious.

Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Usually this stuff takes forever as evidence is carefully gathered. Curious if anyone has any insights here.

RhodesianHunter 4y ago

I'm going to guess plea deals.

egl2021 4y ago

Likely the prosecution's case is strong, e.g. there is a hard-to-disguise paper trail that clearly implicates these first cooperators.

ttul 4y ago

Literally because they have found two cooperating witnesses, who have provided much of the information prosecutors need to convict Mr. SBF.

akerl_ 4y ago

This is what happens when your top lieutenants flip on you for plea deals and you provide the government piles of evidence by doing continuous media interviews and your attempts to disguise your fraud amount to saying "crypto" while you wave your hands.

LastTrain 4y ago

Because there is an administration in power that is more willing to prioritize prosecuting financial crimes.

michaelteter 4y ago
Not necessarily disuputing this, but do you have anything to back up this claim?
andirk 4y ago
And the previous administration never prosecuted any financial crimes, especially not Elizabth Holmes, right? "In June 2018, Theranos announced that Holmes was stepping down as CEO. On the same day, the Department of Justice announced that a federal grand jury had charged Holmes, along with Balwani, with nine counts of wire fraud and two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud." [0] [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabeth-holmes-life-story-bio-2018-4#in-june-2018-theranos-announced-that-holmes-was-stepping-down-as-ceo-on-the-same-day-the-department-of-justice-announced-that-a-federal-grand-jury-had-charged-holmes-along-with-balwani-with-nine-counts-of-wire-fraud-and-two-counts-of-conspiracy-to-commit-wire-fraud-39 https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabe...
- HWR_14 4y ago
  In 2018, Elizabeth Holmes has the misfortune of having multiple cabinet members, Presidental ally Rupert Murdoch and Republican stalwarts like Kissinger and former Senators among her defrauded investors. Other than Theranos there was little financial crime prosecution.
  - from 4y ago
    It is true that white collar prosecutions have declined but this is part of a long running trend (https://www.vox.com/2015/8/5/9099935/federal-white-collar-crime-prosecution-data https://www.vox.com/2015/8/5/9099935/federal-white-collar-cr..., https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/514/ https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/514/). It is also true that the former president was on the record as against the FCPA but there were more enforcement actions in his term than most other presidents (https://www.gibsondunn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Chart2-FCPAEnforcement.jpg https://www.gibsondunn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Chart2...). If there is any increase this year it's likely going to be due to a bunch of low hanging fruit PPP fraud cases.
gadders 4y ago
And all the donation cheques bounced.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwawaylinux 4y ago

Since everybody else is guessing, I'll guess because it's politically inconvenient for powerful people and they'd like this to be wrapped up next year and keep the investigation as quick and narrow as possible.

bhouston 4y ago

And why no charges for Celcius and other ponzis? Are they harder to prove fraud?

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Because two people near the top of the conspiracy, with broad knowledge of its details and where the supporting evidence is, have decided to fully cooperate. And because SBF likes to talk and told his (original) lawyers to, as he tells it, “go fuck themselves” when they advised him to stop publicly confessing his crimes.

shapefrog 4y ago

Despite the smoke and mirrors it is actually an incredibly basic crime to unravel. In the modern era of email / slack / whatever - every smoking gun piece of evidence is a ctrl-f away. SBF is publicly testifying and pointing to where the bodies are buried, FTX the company is cooperating and co-conspirators are cooperating.

salawat 4y ago
You'll be surprised how ephemeral things can be, and many more controversial white collar communication conventions develop to avoid the "on paper" evidence trail. Half of keeping your nose clean and keeping people accountable is cornering them into reading/writing something. This is a great way to make yourself nobody's friend, but also a good weapon for halting something by refusing to do it without getting it in writing first.

LatteLazy 4y ago

Some crimes are inherently hard to prosecute. Fraud for instance requires you to prove intent. International fraud is a mine field of overlapping jurisdictions and definitions and legal systems etc. Other crimes are very easy: misleading (prospective) investors just requires that you fail to disclose something. No need to prove intent, even something very small will do. And as long as there is at least some connection to the US, US courts will hear the case. Prosecuting SBF for defrauding customers would take years. But getting him for failure to disclose to investors (which seems to be what they're after) is really easy. So they're powering through. They also now have 2 co-operating witnesses.

rufus_foreman 4y ago

A couple weeks ago you had people here asking why they were moving forward so slowly.

temp2022acc 4y ago

This time SBF just kinda dumped a huge bag full of evidence on the Justice department's doorstep like it was an early christmas present. The trial is going to be hilarious.