5 ms·

> Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. Curious about where you live

> Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. Curious about where you live and where you grew up? I ask because none of these rings true for me. Many of my friends have bought homes and started families, along the way, they’ve created their own traditions, and are part of communities where they know their neighbors. And this isn’t in just in one place in the country.

notwokeno 4y ago
Obviously there are plenty of individuals where this isn't the case (and there are plenty of people working hard) but the discussion is about the movement of the group and this does appear to be where things are going on both sides.
- fzeroracer 4y ago
  Where exactly is this movement you're seeing? I'm seeing a lot of speculation with no actual facts or data to back it up.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - francisofascii 4y ago
    Not OP, but I think the term "movement" was meant to mean the percentage of people who are starting families, keeping their religion, owning homes, etc. is moving downward. Pew Research has plenty of evidence for this movement downward.
trevyn 4y ago
The point is about a snowballing larger societal collapse, led by the US and UK. (But it will reach everywhere eventually.) If you and your friends are rich and dull enough, you can ostrich-hole it for a while yet. If you want to see the canary in the coal mine, try befriending someone who works in the service industry.
- themitigating 4y ago
  People were working harder for even less a hundred years ago and society didn't collapse.
  - notwokeno 4y ago
    Tradition, nationalism, religion etc. were much stronger a hundred years ago. IE there was a society worth working to participate in.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - themitigating 4y ago
      Finland is in the top position in the world happiness report in 2022. Followed by Denmark and Iceland in second and third place. Switzerland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden, Norway, Israel and New Zealand, were among the top 10 'happiest' countries in the world [1]. Except for Israel wouldn't you say though counties have some of the lowest religious participation? What about nationalism? I'm not trying to prove the opposite of you view as this doesn't show causation but I think it sufficiently counters your view
  - scruple 4y ago
    So what are people missing today?
  - yunwal 4y ago
    I’m not sure this is true anymore. The median American will never be able to afford their own home at current housing prices. Sure, we have a higher gdp per capita, but it doesn’t buy us the things we actually need like housing, health care, etc. Perhaps what’s needed is to bring back family homesteads, but that doesn’t feel like much progress.
    - dashundchen 4y ago
      Do you know what life was like 100 years ago in the US? 35% of households had access to electricity. About 20% had some sort of indoor plumbing, running hot water would be even rarer. Most people heated their houses by shoveling coal or feeding wood fires. Society was even more racially segregated and legally codified and brutally enforced by the government. In warmer rural areas it wasn't uncommon for hookworm to be endemic due to shallow dug latrines. 1/12 children 10 to 15 were working instead of school. Most adults did not graduate high school and illiteracy was not uncommon. This whole subthread is quite strange. I'm still not sure what societal collapse GP is seeing.
dumpsterlid 4y ago
Great you live in a bubble! BEFORE the pandemic most americans couldn't afford a $400 emergency bill, people are pretty desperate in the US on average and if you don't encounter that day to day you are living in comparative luxury.

notwokeno 4y ago

Obviously there are plenty of individuals where this isn't the case (and there are plenty of people working hard) but the discussion is about the movement of the group and this does appear to be where things are going on both sides.

fzeroracer 4y ago
Where exactly is this movement you're seeing? I'm seeing a lot of speculation with no actual facts or data to back it up.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- francisofascii 4y ago
  Not OP, but I think the term "movement" was meant to mean the percentage of people who are starting families, keeping their religion, owning homes, etc. is moving downward. Pew Research has plenty of evidence for this movement downward.

trevyn 4y ago

The point is about a snowballing larger societal collapse, led by the US and UK. (But it will reach everywhere eventually.) If you and your friends are rich and dull enough, you can ostrich-hole it for a while yet. If you want to see the canary in the coal mine, try befriending someone who works in the service industry.

themitigating 4y ago
People were working harder for even less a hundred years ago and society didn't collapse.
- notwokeno 4y ago
  Tradition, nationalism, religion etc. were much stronger a hundred years ago. IE there was a society worth working to participate in.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Finland is in the top position in the world happiness report in 2022. Followed by Denmark and Iceland in second and third place. Switzerland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden, Norway, Israel and New Zealand, were among the top 10 'happiest' countries in the world [1]. Except for Israel wouldn't you say though counties have some of the lowest religious participation? What about nationalism? I'm not trying to prove the opposite of you view as this doesn't show causation but I think it sufficiently counters your view
- scruple 4y ago
  So what are people missing today?
- yunwal 4y ago
  I’m not sure this is true anymore. The median American will never be able to afford their own home at current housing prices. Sure, we have a higher gdp per capita, but it doesn’t buy us the things we actually need like housing, health care, etc. Perhaps what’s needed is to bring back family homesteads, but that doesn’t feel like much progress.
  - dashundchen 4y ago
    Do you know what life was like 100 years ago in the US? 35% of households had access to electricity. About 20% had some sort of indoor plumbing, running hot water would be even rarer. Most people heated their houses by shoveling coal or feeding wood fires. Society was even more racially segregated and legally codified and brutally enforced by the government. In warmer rural areas it wasn't uncommon for hookworm to be endemic due to shallow dug latrines. 1/12 children 10 to 15 were working instead of school. Most adults did not graduate high school and illiteracy was not uncommon. This whole subthread is quite strange. I'm still not sure what societal collapse GP is seeing.

dumpsterlid 4y ago

Great you live in a bubble! BEFORE the pandemic most americans couldn't afford a $400 emergency bill, people are pretty desperate in the US on average and if you don't encounter that day to day you are living in comparative luxury.