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I'm actually not even sure that's it. What do you get with the tokens you're paid in? The ability to participate in society. There's no longer a society to part

I'm actually not even sure that's it. What do you get with the tokens you're paid in? The ability to participate in society. There's no longer a society to participate in though as all the social institutions have been deconstructed. Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. It's not like people are going to starve to death if they don't work (and is that something you even want?) so it's not happening. Note that this isn't the first time in history this has happened.

alphabettsy 4y ago
> Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. Curious about where you live and where you grew up? I ask because none of these rings true for me. Many of my friends have bought homes and started families, along the way, they’ve created their own traditions, and are part of communities where they know their neighbors. And this isn’t in just in one place in the country.
- notwokeno 4y ago
  Obviously there are plenty of individuals where this isn't the case (and there are plenty of people working hard) but the discussion is about the movement of the group and this does appear to be where things are going on both sides.
  - fzeroracer 4y ago
    Where exactly is this movement you're seeing? I'm seeing a lot of speculation with no actual facts or data to back it up.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - francisofascii 4y ago
      Not OP, but I think the term "movement" was meant to mean the percentage of people who are starting families, keeping their religion, owning homes, etc. is moving downward. Pew Research has plenty of evidence for this movement downward.
- trevyn 4y ago
  The point is about a snowballing larger societal collapse, led by the US and UK. (But it will reach everywhere eventually.) If you and your friends are rich and dull enough, you can ostrich-hole it for a while yet. If you want to see the canary in the coal mine, try befriending someone who works in the service industry.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    People were working harder for even less a hundred years ago and society didn't collapse.
    - notwokeno 4y ago
      Tradition, nationalism, religion etc. were much stronger a hundred years ago. IE there was a society worth working to participate in.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - themitigating 4y ago
        Finland is in the top position in the world happiness report in 2022. Followed by Denmark and Iceland in second and third place. Switzerland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden, Norway, Israel and New Zealand, were among the top 10 'happiest' countries in the world [1]. Except for Israel wouldn't you say though counties have some of the lowest religious participation? What about nationalism? I'm not trying to prove the opposite of you view as this doesn't show causation but I think it sufficiently counters your view
    - scruple 4y ago
      So what are people missing today?
    - yunwal 4y ago
      I’m not sure this is true anymore. The median American will never be able to afford their own home at current housing prices. Sure, we have a higher gdp per capita, but it doesn’t buy us the things we actually need like housing, health care, etc. Perhaps what’s needed is to bring back family homesteads, but that doesn’t feel like much progress.
- dumpsterlid 4y ago
  Great you live in a bubble! BEFORE the pandemic most americans couldn't afford a $400 emergency bill, people are pretty desperate in the US on average and if you don't encounter that day to day you are living in comparative luxury.
norvvryo 4y ago
I recently transitioned from long term NEET to full time work and this is hitting me hard. I just end up sitting at home alone playing video games all weekend anyway. What's the point of working the other five days? Especially if the work isn't enjoyable.
- xyzelement 4y ago
  Maybe you can explain this to me because I never understand this "why work?" sentiment. How do you pay your rent, have food, etc. without working?
  - dumpsterlid 4y ago
    Some degree of support network, and when you get paid dirt and the cost to work is high itself (buying and maintaining a car being the big one) the tiny amount of money you get for a huge mental and physical toll just isn't worth it? You are likely still going to be entirely dependent upon that support network job or no job. Jobs that are available to most people dont generally pay a living wage anymore, is that not sinking in for you?
    - hinata08 4y ago
      Nowadays, you can't make any demand if you don't work because of a choice of yours. workers (should) have unions, the ability to go to strike, and the political position to ask better The anger of the general public is moving on from high unemployment rates to low wage for workers. - Have no job ? Nobody cares anymore since service industry needs a workforce (even if you're qualified in any other field) - Have an underpaid job ? You can have a political impact nowadays. Also, jobs allow you to have better jobs in the future. You build experience, and working in some companies, like Amazon, allows you to follow a university course, as mention in OP's article. If you're not doing this for you, you should just have a job to be able to flip off abusive bosses. >Jobs that are available to most people don't generally pay a living wage anymore I don't think it can be a long lasting trend. Check out China, where ppl are protesting. And check out what happens at Amazon in the USA, where the high rate of resignation worries management https://news.yahoo.com/amazon-burns-workers-quickly-executives-133348404.html https://news.yahoo.com/amazon-burns-workers-quickly-executiv...
sgu999 4y ago
> There's no longer a society to participate in though as all the social institutions have been deconstructed. Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. What a strange statement. Could you give some evidence? > It's not like people are going to starve to death if they don't work Uh. They may not starve to death but most would certainly end up living in the street and die early in almost all developed country.
fundad 4y ago
Even in Silicon Valley there are more churches than libraries.
- notwokeno 4y ago
  If it's anything like the rest of the country most of those churches are dead and/or irrelevant. Showing up on Sunday, singing, and giving money to poor people isn't religion.

alphabettsy 4y ago

> Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. Curious about where you live and where you grew up? I ask because none of these rings true for me. Many of my friends have bought homes and started families, along the way, they’ve created their own traditions, and are part of communities where they know their neighbors. And this isn’t in just in one place in the country.

notwokeno 4y ago
Obviously there are plenty of individuals where this isn't the case (and there are plenty of people working hard) but the discussion is about the movement of the group and this does appear to be where things are going on both sides.
- fzeroracer 4y ago
  Where exactly is this movement you're seeing? I'm seeing a lot of speculation with no actual facts or data to back it up.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - francisofascii 4y ago
    Not OP, but I think the term "movement" was meant to mean the percentage of people who are starting families, keeping their religion, owning homes, etc. is moving downward. Pew Research has plenty of evidence for this movement downward.
trevyn 4y ago
The point is about a snowballing larger societal collapse, led by the US and UK. (But it will reach everywhere eventually.) If you and your friends are rich and dull enough, you can ostrich-hole it for a while yet. If you want to see the canary in the coal mine, try befriending someone who works in the service industry.
- themitigating 4y ago
  People were working harder for even less a hundred years ago and society didn't collapse.
  - notwokeno 4y ago
    Tradition, nationalism, religion etc. were much stronger a hundred years ago. IE there was a society worth working to participate in.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - themitigating 4y ago
      Finland is in the top position in the world happiness report in 2022. Followed by Denmark and Iceland in second and third place. Switzerland, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden, Norway, Israel and New Zealand, were among the top 10 'happiest' countries in the world [1]. Except for Israel wouldn't you say though counties have some of the lowest religious participation? What about nationalism? I'm not trying to prove the opposite of you view as this doesn't show causation but I think it sufficiently counters your view
  - scruple 4y ago
    So what are people missing today?
  - yunwal 4y ago
    I’m not sure this is true anymore. The median American will never be able to afford their own home at current housing prices. Sure, we have a higher gdp per capita, but it doesn’t buy us the things we actually need like housing, health care, etc. Perhaps what’s needed is to bring back family homesteads, but that doesn’t feel like much progress.
dumpsterlid 4y ago
Great you live in a bubble! BEFORE the pandemic most americans couldn't afford a $400 emergency bill, people are pretty desperate in the US on average and if you don't encounter that day to day you are living in comparative luxury.

norvvryo 4y ago

I recently transitioned from long term NEET to full time work and this is hitting me hard. I just end up sitting at home alone playing video games all weekend anyway. What's the point of working the other five days? Especially if the work isn't enjoyable.

xyzelement 4y ago
Maybe you can explain this to me because I never understand this "why work?" sentiment. How do you pay your rent, have food, etc. without working?
- dumpsterlid 4y ago
  Some degree of support network, and when you get paid dirt and the cost to work is high itself (buying and maintaining a car being the big one) the tiny amount of money you get for a huge mental and physical toll just isn't worth it? You are likely still going to be entirely dependent upon that support network job or no job. Jobs that are available to most people dont generally pay a living wage anymore, is that not sinking in for you?
  - hinata08 4y ago
    Nowadays, you can't make any demand if you don't work because of a choice of yours. workers (should) have unions, the ability to go to strike, and the political position to ask better The anger of the general public is moving on from high unemployment rates to low wage for workers. - Have no job ? Nobody cares anymore since service industry needs a workforce (even if you're qualified in any other field) - Have an underpaid job ? You can have a political impact nowadays. Also, jobs allow you to have better jobs in the future. You build experience, and working in some companies, like Amazon, allows you to follow a university course, as mention in OP's article. If you're not doing this for you, you should just have a job to be able to flip off abusive bosses. >Jobs that are available to most people don't generally pay a living wage anymore I don't think it can be a long lasting trend. Check out China, where ppl are protesting. And check out what happens at Amazon in the USA, where the high rate of resignation worries management https://news.yahoo.com/amazon-burns-workers-quickly-executives-133348404.html https://news.yahoo.com/amazon-burns-workers-quickly-executiv...

sgu999 4y ago

> There's no longer a society to participate in though as all the social institutions have been deconstructed. Marriage, land ownership, religion, tradition, real communities, family is still nominally there but there's little left of it. What a strange statement. Could you give some evidence? > It's not like people are going to starve to death if they don't work Uh. They may not starve to death but most would certainly end up living in the street and die early in almost all developed country.

fundad 4y ago

Even in Silicon Valley there are more churches than libraries.

notwokeno 4y ago
If it's anything like the rest of the country most of those churches are dead and/or irrelevant. Showing up on Sunday, singing, and giving money to poor people isn't religion.