6 ms·

> Roads are a 'soft grid' for pedestrians and cyclists but stopped up for cars How do emergency vehicles get in and out? If a doctor is called in to an emerge

by msla 4y ago

> Roads are a 'soft grid' for pedestrians and cyclists but stopped up for cars How do emergency vehicles get in and out? If a doctor is called in to an emergency, walking or biking is too slow. How do they get to the case?

dghlsakjg 4y ago
I just went to Houten on google maps. In that area I couldn't come up with a route between two points that took longer than 10 minutes by car. And that was by trying to find the two most inconvenient points in the town. I don't know if Houten has this feature but there are often movable bollards that allow emergency vehicles to take shortcuts. From their centrally located public health center, I couldn't find a location that was more than 6 minutes by car or 10 minutes by bike. A 6 minute response time is better than most people can hope for in many major cities in Europe.
- msla 4y ago
  > I don't know if Houten has this feature but there are often movable bollards that allow emergency vehicles to take shortcuts. Doctors don't drive emergency vehicles, they drive their own cars.
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    (In my experience) Doctors also don't get called out to a specific accident site; that's what Ambulances (and emergency vehicles) are for.
    - msla 4y ago
      That isn't what I'm talking about. When doctors get called in to hospitals for emergencies, they travel in their own cars. Is that really unknown around here? If it is, none of you are competent to decide who needs a car and how cities should be designed.
      - dghlsakjg 4y ago
        You think that emergency room doctors go home to wait between patients? On call docs (the ones that would be coming to the hospital) are the specialists that other doctors call to assist after the emergent issue is handled. A 6 minute worst case scenario drive time is perfectly acceptable. There are hospitals in the states where it will take you longer than 6 minutes to walk to the ED from another location in the hospital after getting paged.
        msla 4y ago
        > On call docs (the ones that would be coming to the hospital) are the specialists that other doctors call to assist after the emergent issue is handled. Not always. This might be true in larger hospitals, but I have personal experience in small towns where, yes, someone will get called in to handle an emergency.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Which is why the 6 minute drive time invited is how long it takes to get to the hospital by regular routing. Emergency doctors also don’t hang out at home when they are on call. They hang out at hospitals.
ericmay 4y ago
> How do emergency vehicles get in and out? They just do. And they do it more easily because they don’t have to fight car traffic to do it. > If a doctor is called in to an emergency, walking or biking is too slow. How do they get to the case? In America you’re looking at a 20+ minute drive for any physician so they are already at the hospital or it takes just as long if not longer to drive to the hospital in a typical American layout. It’s not an issue.
- msla 4y ago
  > They just do. On roads where motor vehicles aren't allowed? On roads blockaded so motor vehicles can't access? That's what "stopped up for cars" means.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    It’s just not a problem. And even if it were a problem it pales in comparison to the deaths and societal cost to driving. You’re thinking about 99.99999% problems and sacrificing common problems (kids being run over etc.).
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      > You’re thinking about 99.99999% problems and sacrificing common problems (kids being run over etc.). Kids being run over is not a common problem, by any standard. You'd struggle to argue that it even qualified as "rare". It's more along the lines of "unheard of". The 2016 census reports the population of 0-19 year olds as 81,880,000. According to this article in US News ( https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2018-12-19/car-crashes-guns-killed-the-most-us-children-and-teens-in-2016 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2018-12-19/... ), "motor vehicle crashes" are the leading cause of death in that age group. There were 4,074 such fatalities in 2016, making for an annual death rate of 0.005%. Every year, one in every 20,000 kids in America dies in a car crash. (Assuming 19-year-olds are "kids".) But "motor vehicle crashes" include cases where the child who died was a passenger in a vehicle that crashed, or where they were a passenger in a vehicle that was hit, or where they were driving a vehicle that crashed, or where they were driving a vehicle that was hit. NHTSA tells us that in 2016, there were just over 7,000 non-vehicle-occupant fatalities from motor vehicle crashes among all age groups combined. ( https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812456 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... ) This is about 19% of the total number of traffic fatalities for that year; if we apply that figure to our teen-and-under deaths, the number of kids getting run over in 2016 would be 770 out of almost 82 million kids. In other words, the annual rate of this problem occurring is estimated at 0.000009; it is, in your terminology, a 99.9991% problem. That's still about 90 times as common as a 99.99999% problem, but I have a sneaking suspicion you were just making that number up. To a first, second, third, and fourth approximation, kids in the United States don't get run over.
kqr 4y ago
Proper bicycle roads are ideal for emergency vehicles, because bicycles are easy to lift out of the way and then they are perfectly clear.
- fmajid 4y ago
  The Dutch bicycle road network is completely separate from the car/truck/motorcycle one and cars physically can’t travel on them.

by msla 4y ago

dghlsakjg 4y ago

I just went to Houten on google maps. In that area I couldn't come up with a route between two points that took longer than 10 minutes by car. And that was by trying to find the two most inconvenient points in the town. I don't know if Houten has this feature but there are often movable bollards that allow emergency vehicles to take shortcuts. From their centrally located public health center, I couldn't find a location that was more than 6 minutes by car or 10 minutes by bike. A 6 minute response time is better than most people can hope for in many major cities in Europe.

msla 4y ago
> I don't know if Houten has this feature but there are often movable bollards that allow emergency vehicles to take shortcuts. Doctors don't drive emergency vehicles, they drive their own cars.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  (In my experience) Doctors also don't get called out to a specific accident site; that's what Ambulances (and emergency vehicles) are for.
  - msla 4y ago
    That isn't what I'm talking about. When doctors get called in to hospitals for emergencies, they travel in their own cars. Is that really unknown around here? If it is, none of you are competent to decide who needs a car and how cities should be designed.
    - dghlsakjg 4y ago
      You think that emergency room doctors go home to wait between patients? On call docs (the ones that would be coming to the hospital) are the specialists that other doctors call to assist after the emergent issue is handled. A 6 minute worst case scenario drive time is perfectly acceptable. There are hospitals in the states where it will take you longer than 6 minutes to walk to the ED from another location in the hospital after getting paged.
      - msla 4y ago
        > On call docs (the ones that would be coming to the hospital) are the specialists that other doctors call to assist after the emergent issue is handled. Not always. This might be true in larger hospitals, but I have personal experience in small towns where, yes, someone will get called in to handle an emergency.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Which is why the 6 minute drive time invited is how long it takes to get to the hospital by regular routing. Emergency doctors also don’t hang out at home when they are on call. They hang out at hospitals.

ericmay 4y ago

> How do emergency vehicles get in and out? They just do. And they do it more easily because they don’t have to fight car traffic to do it. > If a doctor is called in to an emergency, walking or biking is too slow. How do they get to the case? In America you’re looking at a 20+ minute drive for any physician so they are already at the hospital or it takes just as long if not longer to drive to the hospital in a typical American layout. It’s not an issue.

msla 4y ago
> They just do. On roads where motor vehicles aren't allowed? On roads blockaded so motor vehicles can't access? That's what "stopped up for cars" means.
- ericmay 4y ago
  It’s just not a problem. And even if it were a problem it pales in comparison to the deaths and societal cost to driving. You’re thinking about 99.99999% problems and sacrificing common problems (kids being run over etc.).
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > You’re thinking about 99.99999% problems and sacrificing common problems (kids being run over etc.). Kids being run over is not a common problem, by any standard. You'd struggle to argue that it even qualified as "rare". It's more along the lines of "unheard of". The 2016 census reports the population of 0-19 year olds as 81,880,000. According to this article in US News ( https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2018-12-19/car-crashes-guns-killed-the-most-us-children-and-teens-in-2016 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2018-12-19/... ), "motor vehicle crashes" are the leading cause of death in that age group. There were 4,074 such fatalities in 2016, making for an annual death rate of 0.005%. Every year, one in every 20,000 kids in America dies in a car crash. (Assuming 19-year-olds are "kids".) But "motor vehicle crashes" include cases where the child who died was a passenger in a vehicle that crashed, or where they were a passenger in a vehicle that was hit, or where they were driving a vehicle that crashed, or where they were driving a vehicle that was hit. NHTSA tells us that in 2016, there were just over 7,000 non-vehicle-occupant fatalities from motor vehicle crashes among all age groups combined. ( https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812456 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... ) This is about 19% of the total number of traffic fatalities for that year; if we apply that figure to our teen-and-under deaths, the number of kids getting run over in 2016 would be 770 out of almost 82 million kids. In other words, the annual rate of this problem occurring is estimated at 0.000009; it is, in your terminology, a 99.9991% problem. That's still about 90 times as common as a 99.99999% problem, but I have a sneaking suspicion you were just making that number up. To a first, second, third, and fourth approximation, kids in the United States don't get run over.

kqr 4y ago

Proper bicycle roads are ideal for emergency vehicles, because bicycles are easy to lift out of the way and then they are perfectly clear.

fmajid 4y ago
The Dutch bicycle road network is completely separate from the car/truck/motorcycle one and cars physically can’t travel on them.