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> This article also neglects the art of gluten formation, which lets you stretch the dough without tearing it, AFAIK. Which raises a question for y'all: rolling

by ilyt 4y ago

> This article also neglects the art of gluten formation, which lets you stretch the dough without tearing it, AFAIK. Which raises a question for y'all: rolling pin, or hand-stretch? The owner of my local pizzeria, which has been there for 50 years, says rolling pin. Food processor. Mine is shit so it needs some helping but otherwise comes up nice and stretchy. Ain't nobody got time to knead for 10 minutes like some recipes/YTbers want. I put a bit of flour, water and yeast in separate cup and leave alone for some time (till it smells yeasty), mix rest of flour with salt and then add the yeast and remaining wated to it. My reasoning is that it's easier to spread yeast around that way but dunno if that's right, seems to work. Then mix in food mixer till it is nice and uniform uniform, leave for an hour, then mix again. I occasionally manually reposition dough in food processor a bit but again, that's coz mine is a bit shit. Then cover and leave overnight in fridge

graycat 4y ago
> gluten formation, rolling pin, or hand-stretch, food mixer. For my ingredients listed above: First, I put the yeast in the water to soak and get soft, sometimes for 1+ hours. Right before combining with the flour, add salt to the water and yeast and mix. There are rumors that if had the salt in the water and yeast for 1+ hours, the salt would kill the yeast. Then add ~2/3rds of the four to the water, yeast, and salt. Mix with a cooking spoon. Add the rest of the flour and mix roughly. Cover and let rise for 1+ hours. Dump onto a floured pastry board and knead: Press and flatten, fold in half, and repeat. Use enough loose flour to keep the outside surface not very sticky -- don't have to have sticky dough on fingers. Knead until dough "springs back". 8 minutes is plenty long enough. Return to the bowl, cover, and let rise again for several hours. This time will get a lot of CO2 and volume. Dump onto pastry board again, stretch into a log and cut into 8 pieces -- or fewer if want larger individual pizzas. Put each piece in its own covered plastic container. Freezing works well -- can thaw in microwave quickly or in refrigerator overnight. For a pizza, just press flat and round with finger tips. Since I press the dough on a round sheet of Teflon, I don't have to think about how to handle the dough once flat, round, and topped with sauce, cheese, etc. So, no machines, rolling pins, tossing, or hand stretching. Supposedly the kneading does "develop the gluten". The kneading does make the dough very different from the dough for pie crust. There are rumors that letting the dough rise in a refrigerator generates good, additional yeast flavor. Also, there are many varieties of yeast, and some make more and/or better flavor than others.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Like just put a round ball of dough and press it ? I might try it, shaping the dough into round shape is my least favourite part > There are rumors that if had the salt in the water and yeast for 1+ hours, the salt would kill the yeast. As much as I have researched that it's that some level of salt would do that but level below that would just slow the yeast down. I'd be more worried with 1h+ in water it would just not have the "fuel" to multiply. That's why I start with yeast, water and some flour, basically to get yeast to multiply a bunch before mixing it with rest of the flour, I'm worried that "just" mixing it with flour and water might've created pockets when dough is saltier and kill it or just be non-uniform > So, no machines, rolling pins, tossing, or hand stretching. Supposedly the kneading does "develop the gluten". The kneading does make the dough very different from the dough for pie crust. I tried kneading, tossing, rolling pin, and machine and honestly only difference seems to be time. End result is still "The sticky dough is now less sticky" except amount of mess and time to do it is different... > There are rumors that letting the dough rise in a refrigerator generates good, additional yeast flavor. Also, there are many varieties of yeast, and some make more and/or better flavor than others. I might have not discerning enough taste but I honestly can't tell between 1 day or 2 day dough. Maybe if I tried it side by side or something...
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    This calls out for the Triangle Test! Two the same, one different, and you have to pick the outlier.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    > I might have not discerning enough taste but I honestly can't tell between 1 day or 2 day dough I do sourdough, so I use a levain not a dry yeast, but I have done many 2-day doughs (48 hours rest in the fridge) and many 1-day doughs (24 hours in the fridge), and yes, I can easily tell the difference, and I prefer the 2-day dough, and will always do that timeline when schedule permits. Serious eats reached similar conclusions: https://www.seriouseats.com/the-pizza-lab-how-long-should-i-let-my-dough-cold-ferment https://www.seriouseats.com/the-pizza-lab-how-long-should-i-... NB thier "day 1" is same day: "Each day (including the first before it went in the fridge), I pulled out a 6-ounce chunk of it... and baked it" So what I call a "two-day dough" with about 48 hours in the fridge, is what they call "day 3", which isn't wrong: Thursday, Friday, Saturday are 3 days; Thursday afternoon to to Saturday afternoon is 2 days. Dough made on Thursday rests for 2 days before Saturday, and Saturday is the third day. I agree with them on the dough that rested 24 hours or less though - "tight, small-holed structure ... The flavor of the crumb was ... one dimensional". It is spongy and bready. Not bad, just bland.

by ilyt 4y ago

graycat 4y ago

> gluten formation, rolling pin, or hand-stretch, food mixer. For my ingredients listed above: First, I put the yeast in the water to soak and get soft, sometimes for 1+ hours. Right before combining with the flour, add salt to the water and yeast and mix. There are rumors that if had the salt in the water and yeast for 1+ hours, the salt would kill the yeast. Then add ~2/3rds of the four to the water, yeast, and salt. Mix with a cooking spoon. Add the rest of the flour and mix roughly. Cover and let rise for 1+ hours. Dump onto a floured pastry board and knead: Press and flatten, fold in half, and repeat. Use enough loose flour to keep the outside surface not very sticky -- don't have to have sticky dough on fingers. Knead until dough "springs back". 8 minutes is plenty long enough. Return to the bowl, cover, and let rise again for several hours. This time will get a lot of CO2 and volume. Dump onto pastry board again, stretch into a log and cut into 8 pieces -- or fewer if want larger individual pizzas. Put each piece in its own covered plastic container. Freezing works well -- can thaw in microwave quickly or in refrigerator overnight. For a pizza, just press flat and round with finger tips. Since I press the dough on a round sheet of Teflon, I don't have to think about how to handle the dough once flat, round, and topped with sauce, cheese, etc. So, no machines, rolling pins, tossing, or hand stretching. Supposedly the kneading does "develop the gluten". The kneading does make the dough very different from the dough for pie crust. There are rumors that letting the dough rise in a refrigerator generates good, additional yeast flavor. Also, there are many varieties of yeast, and some make more and/or better flavor than others.

ilyt 4y ago
Like just put a round ball of dough and press it ? I might try it, shaping the dough into round shape is my least favourite part > There are rumors that if had the salt in the water and yeast for 1+ hours, the salt would kill the yeast. As much as I have researched that it's that some level of salt would do that but level below that would just slow the yeast down. I'd be more worried with 1h+ in water it would just not have the "fuel" to multiply. That's why I start with yeast, water and some flour, basically to get yeast to multiply a bunch before mixing it with rest of the flour, I'm worried that "just" mixing it with flour and water might've created pockets when dough is saltier and kill it or just be non-uniform > So, no machines, rolling pins, tossing, or hand stretching. Supposedly the kneading does "develop the gluten". The kneading does make the dough very different from the dough for pie crust. I tried kneading, tossing, rolling pin, and machine and honestly only difference seems to be time. End result is still "The sticky dough is now less sticky" except amount of mess and time to do it is different... > There are rumors that letting the dough rise in a refrigerator generates good, additional yeast flavor. Also, there are many varieties of yeast, and some make more and/or better flavor than others. I might have not discerning enough taste but I honestly can't tell between 1 day or 2 day dough. Maybe if I tried it side by side or something...
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  This calls out for the Triangle Test! Two the same, one different, and you have to pick the outlier.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  > I might have not discerning enough taste but I honestly can't tell between 1 day or 2 day dough I do sourdough, so I use a levain not a dry yeast, but I have done many 2-day doughs (48 hours rest in the fridge) and many 1-day doughs (24 hours in the fridge), and yes, I can easily tell the difference, and I prefer the 2-day dough, and will always do that timeline when schedule permits. Serious eats reached similar conclusions: https://www.seriouseats.com/the-pizza-lab-how-long-should-i-let-my-dough-cold-ferment https://www.seriouseats.com/the-pizza-lab-how-long-should-i-... NB thier "day 1" is same day: "Each day (including the first before it went in the fridge), I pulled out a 6-ounce chunk of it... and baked it" So what I call a "two-day dough" with about 48 hours in the fridge, is what they call "day 3", which isn't wrong: Thursday, Friday, Saturday are 3 days; Thursday afternoon to to Saturday afternoon is 2 days. Dough made on Thursday rests for 2 days before Saturday, and Saturday is the third day. I agree with them on the dough that rested 24 hours or less though - "tight, small-holed structure ... The flavor of the crumb was ... one dimensional". It is spongy and bready. Not bad, just bland.