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>Also in this case abolish the TSA. People fail to realize that TSA is just the nationalization and standardization of the system in place pre-9/11. It wasn't

>Also in this case abolish the TSA. People fail to realize that TSA is just the nationalization and standardization of the system in place pre-9/11. It wasn't new or unprecedented. Instead of a Wackenhut (now G4S) contractor making $17k scanning bags it became a government employee making $21k. You are remembering a past that never existed if you think things used to be better. Things are better now, unless you are 90 years old remembering the 1960s. A spate of communist hijackings of airplanes led to bag and bodily inspections in the early 70s. Here's security officers hand-inspecting every single carry-on (and frisking every single passenger) in 1973: https://imgur.com/a/n2HRbtE https://imgur.com/a/n2HRbtE Here's the film Airplane 2 lampooning airport security in 1982: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkagYixpuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkagYixpuc I started flying internationally constantly for work after Lockerbie. For years I had to remove and power on every single electronic device I carried (and I carried, for the time, many) to demonstrate no components had been replaced by explosives. Not only in the US but also Europe and Asia. Today is better than any time in the past, again, unless you're on death's door remembering flying in the 1950s and 1960s. Put your bags on the conveyer, walk through the scanner, done. Based on my observations the people who have problems with this are those unfamiliar with the procedures needed (like removing the Mr. T-style amount of jewelry they're wearing) to make things move smoothly. Much better and faster than staff with nylon rods poking around in every bag and frisking every person.

tdeck 4y ago
Not sure about international flights but I remember airport security in the 90s. You put your bag in an x-ray machine and walked through a metal detector. If it beeped they wanded you. It was like entering an important museum and was much quicker and less dehumanizing than the modern process. There wasn't this BS with liquids or removing your shoes and the people running the process had less power over you because they weren't wannabe cops working for the federal government. Most people back then weren't carrying electronics so rhey probably didn't get flagged the way you did.
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  > There wasn't this BS with liquids or removing your shoes and the people running the process had less power over you because they weren't wannabe cops working for the federal government. This illustrates the misunderstandings about the TSA. The TSA didn't make up the liquids rule. The British did and then they promulgated those rules up through the ICAO (international civil aviation organization). The TSA implemented the rule because the US is a member of the ICAO, as did many other countries. If the TSA didn't exist, the FAA or DOT would have implemented the liquid rule instead and a private security contractor would be throwing away water bottles instead of "wannabe cops working for the federal government". Same with shoes. https://www.icao.int/Security/SFP/LAGS_STEBS/Documents/A%20history%20of%20LAGs%20and%20STEBs.pdf https://www.icao.int/Security/SFP/LAGS_STEBS/Documents/A%20h... The TSA can't even change anything if they try. They only implement rules as directed by Congress, the FAA, and the ICAO. They tried to unban knives because their analysis showed that knives posed no threat to aircraft, but were overruled by Congress. https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/travel/tsa-knives/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/travel/tsa-knives/index.html
  - sirmarksalot 4y ago
    You're arguing two separate points as if they're the same thing. Point 1: the TSA in particular is not at fault for the modern state of airport security Point 2: airport security is better than it has been since the 60s You spent most of your first post arguing point 2, which is counter to my own experience, and which GP contradicted. Rather than address their points, you've ignored their argument and switched to point 1, which they didn't even challenge. My summary of the situation: the culture of fear that arose in the wake of 9/11 has resulted in a slough of changes that as a whole have made the experience of getting on a plane materially worse than it was prior to 9/11. One of those changes was the establishment of the TSA. While the TSA does not itself bear much if any of the responsibility for the problems with the security process, they do serve as a figurehead for all of those changes. And yes, I agree with GP that airport security is much more inconvenient than it was in the 90s. My indicator is how early you're advised to arrive before a flight. In the 80s and 90s, the common wisdom was to show up an hour early, or an hour and a half to two hours for international flights. After 9/11, that bumped up to an hour and a half for domestic, and now after COVID, they recommend 2 hours or more for a domestic flight, 3 during holidays.

tdeck 4y ago

Not sure about international flights but I remember airport security in the 90s. You put your bag in an x-ray machine and walked through a metal detector. If it beeped they wanded you. It was like entering an important museum and was much quicker and less dehumanizing than the modern process. There wasn't this BS with liquids or removing your shoes and the people running the process had less power over you because they weren't wannabe cops working for the federal government. Most people back then weren't carrying electronics so rhey probably didn't get flagged the way you did.

rocket_surgeron 4y ago
> There wasn't this BS with liquids or removing your shoes and the people running the process had less power over you because they weren't wannabe cops working for the federal government. This illustrates the misunderstandings about the TSA. The TSA didn't make up the liquids rule. The British did and then they promulgated those rules up through the ICAO (international civil aviation organization). The TSA implemented the rule because the US is a member of the ICAO, as did many other countries. If the TSA didn't exist, the FAA or DOT would have implemented the liquid rule instead and a private security contractor would be throwing away water bottles instead of "wannabe cops working for the federal government". Same with shoes. https://www.icao.int/Security/SFP/LAGS_STEBS/Documents/A%20history%20of%20LAGs%20and%20STEBs.pdf https://www.icao.int/Security/SFP/LAGS_STEBS/Documents/A%20h... The TSA can't even change anything if they try. They only implement rules as directed by Congress, the FAA, and the ICAO. They tried to unban knives because their analysis showed that knives posed no threat to aircraft, but were overruled by Congress. https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/travel/tsa-knives/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/travel/tsa-knives/index.html
- sirmarksalot 4y ago
  You're arguing two separate points as if they're the same thing. Point 1: the TSA in particular is not at fault for the modern state of airport security Point 2: airport security is better than it has been since the 60s You spent most of your first post arguing point 2, which is counter to my own experience, and which GP contradicted. Rather than address their points, you've ignored their argument and switched to point 1, which they didn't even challenge. My summary of the situation: the culture of fear that arose in the wake of 9/11 has resulted in a slough of changes that as a whole have made the experience of getting on a plane materially worse than it was prior to 9/11. One of those changes was the establishment of the TSA. While the TSA does not itself bear much if any of the responsibility for the problems with the security process, they do serve as a figurehead for all of those changes. And yes, I agree with GP that airport security is much more inconvenient than it was in the 90s. My indicator is how early you're advised to arrive before a flight. In the 80s and 90s, the common wisdom was to show up an hour early, or an hour and a half to two hours for international flights. After 9/11, that bumped up to an hour and a half for domestic, and now after COVID, they recommend 2 hours or more for a domestic flight, 3 during holidays.