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> Being able to support yourself is actually a point that psychiatrists can use. Yes, and Kanye may have various financial and business problems, but by any sa

by mlyle 4y ago

> Being able to support yourself is actually a point that psychiatrists can use. Yes, and Kanye may have various financial and business problems, but by any sane metric is able to support himself. > Kanye can blow a lot of money and still survive. Yes, which makes the behavior less obviously irrational. This is why diagnostic criteria have phrases like "cause marked impairment in social or occupational functioning" --- and meeting diagnostic criteria alone is not generally sufficient for involuntary commitment. There, we reach the legal system, and definitions that generally include a pretty strict definition of danger-to-self-or-others-or-gravely-disabled, which wouldn't include this kind of thing.

lazide 4y ago
If he was poor, he’d be crazy. Since he’s rich (still provably?) he’s just eccentric. I agree, though it’s not clear if you’re talking 5150 or conservatorship. IMO, a pretty clear argument could be made (if someone had standing and wanted to do so) for conservatorship, at least of the estate, and possibly for him individually, in Kanye’s case. I don’t see anything even hinting at a justification for 5150 WIC, even without considering the de-facto loosening of when it’s applied, which is I’m guessing what you’re referring to. Hell, even if you’re lunging at someone with knife while talking about killing your self, it seems like most jurisdictions won’t do it. (Especially SF). If particularly public safety minded at the moment, they might take away your knife if they don’t shoot you first. Budget reasons. As to where it would go, god knows.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > If he was poor, he’d be crazy. Plenty of poor people say messed up things, alienate people around them, and screw up their employment. They generally don't end up with involuntary mental treatment. Even if the root cause is because of mania or something. > I don’t see anything even hinting at a justification for 5150 WIC, even without considering the de-facto loosening of when it’s applied, which is I’m guessing what you’re referring to. Well, the whole context we're talking about things in is in the context of involuntary treatment.
  - lazide 4y ago
    It’s not unlikely that 75 years ago someone doing what he has has been doing would get involuntarily committed. Budget has a big part to play in this.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      We're galloping to further and further away topics from the original discussion... if he were poor, and it was 75 years ago, it would be not unlikely. I disagree with this assertion, too, BTW, but it's so far from what I set out to discuss that I'm not too interested in responding further.

by mlyle 4y ago

lazide 4y ago

If he was poor, he’d be crazy. Since he’s rich (still provably?) he’s just eccentric. I agree, though it’s not clear if you’re talking 5150 or conservatorship. IMO, a pretty clear argument could be made (if someone had standing and wanted to do so) for conservatorship, at least of the estate, and possibly for him individually, in Kanye’s case. I don’t see anything even hinting at a justification for 5150 WIC, even without considering the de-facto loosening of when it’s applied, which is I’m guessing what you’re referring to. Hell, even if you’re lunging at someone with knife while talking about killing your self, it seems like most jurisdictions won’t do it. (Especially SF). If particularly public safety minded at the moment, they might take away your knife if they don’t shoot you first. Budget reasons. As to where it would go, god knows.

mlyle 4y ago
> If he was poor, he’d be crazy. Plenty of poor people say messed up things, alienate people around them, and screw up their employment. They generally don't end up with involuntary mental treatment. Even if the root cause is because of mania or something. > I don’t see anything even hinting at a justification for 5150 WIC, even without considering the de-facto loosening of when it’s applied, which is I’m guessing what you’re referring to. Well, the whole context we're talking about things in is in the context of involuntary treatment.
- lazide 4y ago
  It’s not unlikely that 75 years ago someone doing what he has has been doing would get involuntarily committed. Budget has a big part to play in this.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    We're galloping to further and further away topics from the original discussion... if he were poor, and it was 75 years ago, it would be not unlikely. I disagree with this assertion, too, BTW, but it's so far from what I set out to discuss that I'm not too interested in responding further.