4 ms·

"Property value" is the biggest cop out. When someone says that what they really mean is "I don't like the look of that", but they can't just say that, it has

"Property value" is the biggest cop out. When someone says that what they really mean is "I don't like the look of that", but they can't just say that, it has to have a vague monetary penalty for them to be taken seriously. Whenever someone hits you with that make sure you get them to document the reduction in their property value in dollars, including methodology. It's not possible, houses sell for whatever someone buys it for and you can't know the mind of buyers. Maybe the fact that your door is off-tan instead of off-medium-tan will make some buyer reduce their offer on a house 5 doors down by $20,000, but there's no way to prove that.

jakogut 4y ago
I learned in my home buying process that values are mostly meaningless, and completely subject to what buyers will offer. When you buy a house, the bank orders an appraisal to ensure the property is worth the offered price, in case of foreclosure. What's the first thing the appraiser looks at to determine value? Comparables, which is an industry term for similar houses/properties in similar areas and what they sold for. What's the best comparable? The offer you made on the property you're attempting to buy. It's cyclical. I agree that people should not be penalized for living in and using their homes. If I buy a house with a garage, you shouldn't get mad that I work on my car and even gasp make some noise during the day while I do it.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  It's terrifying that public education lets someone graduate high school without the most basic understanding of how pricing works.
- jandrese 4y ago
  The entire appraisal industry is largely a scam IMHO. At most they can tell a bank if an offer is outside the realm of reason for the neighborhood, but that's basically just a search of recent sale prices. They won't even send someone out to look at a property. Last time I went to sell my house the market was in a fairly volatile state and I didn't have a good idea of what a fair price for my house would be. So I called multiple appraisal companies asking if they could give me a fair market value figure I could use for the listing. Not one of them would do it. That's not their business they told me. They basically exist as one of many dubious middlemen that takes a cut out of each home sale while offering little value.
  - conductr 4y ago
    I wouldn’t disagree with you except to point out that they do exactly what they’re intended to do. Protecting the lender. Even then, it’s just one of the many checks in the underwriting process. They do however tend to thwart rapid price surges in the market. Depending on if you’re buying or selling will change your opinion on if that is good or bad.
  - telotortium 4y ago
    My mortgage lender's appraisal involved an in-person evaluation both times on my house (first house purchase - initial mortgage followed by a refinance). In SF Bay Area, so maybe things are done differently where you are? I'll grant that they largely rubber-stamp the offer price, but if the property has hidden defects it might be good for the bank to try to find that out before lending.
josephcsible 4y ago
> When someone says that what they really mean is "I don't like the look of that" No, they mean "people who are in the market for a house like mine tend to not like the look of that."
- jandrese 4y ago
  Again, how do they know the mind of buyers? Are they in telepathic communication with current home buyers?
  - tharkun__ 4y ago
    I think you are both onto something there. Of course nobody in telepathically able to figure out what goes on in some buyers' minds. I don't know if/how many buyers would really consider it in a "let's bid $20.000 below asking because the neighbour three doors down has a broken car in his driveway" or "because the lawn isn't a golf-green" way. What I do think many buyers will consider is whether to buy at all. And that's not about being able to quantify it. You can see from just a few of the other replies here that people do consider that, whether you like it or not. Many buyers will not even consider to buy your house, if the neighbour's yard is overgrown. Like the difference between this being your neighbor: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PGgOiHH_4Sk/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PGgOiHH_4Sk/maxresdefault.jpg vs. this https://fthmb.tqn.com/bUupIggP7-_Duha--avqVcXqLqc=/960x0/filters:no_upscale()/overgrown_yard-5817ba305f9b581c0bb72080.jpg https://fthmb.tqn.com/bUupIggP7-_Duha--avqVcXqLqc=/960x0/fil... Now both are overgrown but one screams neglected, possibly even abandoned. The other, while not everyone's cup of tea, seems intentional and lively. Or to take cars. This to me looks ugly and abandoned. Don't want to live next to that person: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ub_p4acppHE/TWv_24yosLI/AAAAAAAABfc/KIX_PUYwInU/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/1955+Nomad+junkyard.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ub_p4acppHE/TWv_24yosLI/A... but this is awesome https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c9/81/97/c98197ac689cdef00eb5cdc4ed4d8bcc.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c9/81/97/c98197ac689cdef00eb5... and that tractor definitely needs repairs from time to time. The problem comes in when trying to do something about one without affecting the other. I don't know if that's possible via a law at all as there's so much nuance and personal opinion and aesthetics in it. I bet in this large HN crowd you'll find someone that even disagrees w/ my opinion that the second yard I linked to looks awesome. I'd buy that house!
chasd00 4y ago
i don't think it's a cop out, I certainly wouldn't buy a house on a street with a bunch of broken down cars on it.
- lrvick 4y ago
  And that is why people do it.
- marcus_holmes 4y ago
  Standard house-buying advice is to buy "the worst house on the best street". So having some broken-down cars on your property may make it "the worst house" on your street and therefore more saleable.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Standard house-buying advice is to buy "the worst house on the best street". “Worst” here really meaning selling for the lowest value compared to what is implied by size and neighborhood. > So having some broken-down cars on your property may make it "the worst house" on your street and therefore more saleable. It may signal that it is likely to be underpriced and get people to check it out, but that’s about it.
antasvara 4y ago
Let's say a house is actively burning down next door. If you were to sell right at that moment, the value of that home would be decreased due to the fire risk. However, there isn't any sensible methodology for predicting the exact amount that house would decrease in value. The point I'm making there is that for some changes, price will most definitely be affected negatively. However, it would also be impossible to quantify how much the price would decrease with any degree of accuracy. Now, is something like "door color" going to have this clear of a negative impact? No. We should ignore those requests as largely absurd. But there are definitely activities that would have clear negative impacts on price, even if that can't be quantified in an accurate manner whatsoever. Does this mean we should legislate changes to help maintain property values? No. But it's certainly a valid claim in some circumstances.
willcipriano 4y ago
If I build a shed on my property that my neighbor doesn't like they could come with their hand out. If I bulldoze my house and build a beautiful park, they'll never send me a check. In my view this has to go both ways or neither.

jakogut 4y ago

I learned in my home buying process that values are mostly meaningless, and completely subject to what buyers will offer. When you buy a house, the bank orders an appraisal to ensure the property is worth the offered price, in case of foreclosure. What's the first thing the appraiser looks at to determine value? Comparables, which is an industry term for similar houses/properties in similar areas and what they sold for. What's the best comparable? The offer you made on the property you're attempting to buy. It's cyclical. I agree that people should not be penalized for living in and using their homes. If I buy a house with a garage, you shouldn't get mad that I work on my car and even gasp make some noise during the day while I do it.

Consultant32452 4y ago
It's terrifying that public education lets someone graduate high school without the most basic understanding of how pricing works.
jandrese 4y ago
The entire appraisal industry is largely a scam IMHO. At most they can tell a bank if an offer is outside the realm of reason for the neighborhood, but that's basically just a search of recent sale prices. They won't even send someone out to look at a property. Last time I went to sell my house the market was in a fairly volatile state and I didn't have a good idea of what a fair price for my house would be. So I called multiple appraisal companies asking if they could give me a fair market value figure I could use for the listing. Not one of them would do it. That's not their business they told me. They basically exist as one of many dubious middlemen that takes a cut out of each home sale while offering little value.
- conductr 4y ago
  I wouldn’t disagree with you except to point out that they do exactly what they’re intended to do. Protecting the lender. Even then, it’s just one of the many checks in the underwriting process. They do however tend to thwart rapid price surges in the market. Depending on if you’re buying or selling will change your opinion on if that is good or bad.
- telotortium 4y ago
  My mortgage lender's appraisal involved an in-person evaluation both times on my house (first house purchase - initial mortgage followed by a refinance). In SF Bay Area, so maybe things are done differently where you are? I'll grant that they largely rubber-stamp the offer price, but if the property has hidden defects it might be good for the bank to try to find that out before lending.

josephcsible 4y ago

> When someone says that what they really mean is "I don't like the look of that" No, they mean "people who are in the market for a house like mine tend to not like the look of that."

jandrese 4y ago
Again, how do they know the mind of buyers? Are they in telepathic communication with current home buyers?
- tharkun__ 4y ago
  I think you are both onto something there. Of course nobody in telepathically able to figure out what goes on in some buyers' minds. I don't know if/how many buyers would really consider it in a "let's bid $20.000 below asking because the neighbour three doors down has a broken car in his driveway" or "because the lawn isn't a golf-green" way. What I do think many buyers will consider is whether to buy at all. And that's not about being able to quantify it. You can see from just a few of the other replies here that people do consider that, whether you like it or not. Many buyers will not even consider to buy your house, if the neighbour's yard is overgrown. Like the difference between this being your neighbor: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PGgOiHH_4Sk/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PGgOiHH_4Sk/maxresdefault.jpg vs. this https://fthmb.tqn.com/bUupIggP7-_Duha--avqVcXqLqc=/960x0/filters:no_upscale()/overgrown_yard-5817ba305f9b581c0bb72080.jpg https://fthmb.tqn.com/bUupIggP7-_Duha--avqVcXqLqc=/960x0/fil... Now both are overgrown but one screams neglected, possibly even abandoned. The other, while not everyone's cup of tea, seems intentional and lively. Or to take cars. This to me looks ugly and abandoned. Don't want to live next to that person: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ub_p4acppHE/TWv_24yosLI/AAAAAAAABfc/KIX_PUYwInU/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/1955+Nomad+junkyard.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ub_p4acppHE/TWv_24yosLI/A... but this is awesome https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c9/81/97/c98197ac689cdef00eb5cdc4ed4d8bcc.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c9/81/97/c98197ac689cdef00eb5... and that tractor definitely needs repairs from time to time. The problem comes in when trying to do something about one without affecting the other. I don't know if that's possible via a law at all as there's so much nuance and personal opinion and aesthetics in it. I bet in this large HN crowd you'll find someone that even disagrees w/ my opinion that the second yard I linked to looks awesome. I'd buy that house!

chasd00 4y ago

i don't think it's a cop out, I certainly wouldn't buy a house on a street with a bunch of broken down cars on it.

lrvick 4y ago
And that is why people do it.
marcus_holmes 4y ago
Standard house-buying advice is to buy "the worst house on the best street". So having some broken-down cars on your property may make it "the worst house" on your street and therefore more saleable.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Standard house-buying advice is to buy "the worst house on the best street". “Worst” here really meaning selling for the lowest value compared to what is implied by size and neighborhood. > So having some broken-down cars on your property may make it "the worst house" on your street and therefore more saleable. It may signal that it is likely to be underpriced and get people to check it out, but that’s about it.

antasvara 4y ago

Let's say a house is actively burning down next door. If you were to sell right at that moment, the value of that home would be decreased due to the fire risk. However, there isn't any sensible methodology for predicting the exact amount that house would decrease in value. The point I'm making there is that for some changes, price will most definitely be affected negatively. However, it would also be impossible to quantify how much the price would decrease with any degree of accuracy. Now, is something like "door color" going to have this clear of a negative impact? No. We should ignore those requests as largely absurd. But there are definitely activities that would have clear negative impacts on price, even if that can't be quantified in an accurate manner whatsoever. Does this mean we should legislate changes to help maintain property values? No. But it's certainly a valid claim in some circumstances.

willcipriano 4y ago

If I build a shed on my property that my neighbor doesn't like they could come with their hand out. If I bulldoze my house and build a beautiful park, they'll never send me a check. In my view this has to go both ways or neither.