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Have you ridden aluminium bikes in a way that lets you compare? I have a steel and an aluminum frame, but they have different applications so I can't compare. I

by ehnto 4y ago

Have you ridden aluminium bikes in a way that lets you compare? I have a steel and an aluminum frame, but they have different applications so I can't compare. I do feel more harshness in the bars on the ALU frames, like sharper peaks in vibrations.

baggsie 4y ago
A good alu frame is more comfortable than a cheap steel or carbon frame IME. I think a lot of the perceived differences comes down to tyres rather than frame material - steel bikes are much more likely to have >35mm tyres than alu with 25 - 28mm.
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  And a really good steel frame (or titanium that has been butted to ride like steel) is even more enjoyable still, at least for a lot of folks. A hand built steel frame is luxurious and will ride like a dream.
  - zardo 4y ago
    > A hand built steel frame is luxurious and will ride like a dream. Surely that depends on the hands.
  - deebosong 4y ago
    I've tried the following: • steel, straight-gauge Hi-Ten from the mid 90's • steel, double-butted, Columbus SL from the late 70's/ early 80's • steel, double-butted, Tange 1 from the late 80's • steel, not sure but it was a Kona Rova from 2020 I believe • aluminum, Cannondale R300 from the mid 90's • aluminum, Specialized SmartWeld DSW from 2016 • aluminum, Cannondale Synapse from the late 2010's I personally love Columbus SL. I believe it was 0.1 mm thicker all around than even the Tange 1 bike in numbers (but I'm not sure if both triangles were double-butted or only the main one). But it feels springier, even with the same wheels & tires & components swapped between the two frames. I didn't mind the Cannondale Synapse. It subjectively felt better than the Smartweld aluminum, but the difference could have been in the wider tires on the Synapse (versus the Spesh). The Kona Rove... for some reason was a bit of a letdown. People seem to love that bike, though. And Hi-Ten is as stiff and clunky as everyone says. Pure beater material right there. But the Cannondale R300's mid 90's aluminum was even harsher and wrist-numbing. It'll rattle you to your core! All of this is anecdotal & subjective, though. I've learned to compensate the added road-noise from the Specialized aluminum by hovering off my saddle and bending my elbows a bit while loosening my grip. But man, I love that racing steel bike. It makes me wanna try Tange Prestige of the road variety, and Ti as well. Only other thing I'm super curious about is CAAD 12 Aluminum, but on forums I've read that CAAD 12's are slightly harsher than SuperSix Evo's (all carbon). ––– Edited to include some other bikes & models
    - wiredfool 4y ago
      I've ridden (mostly in the 60cm sizes): - Steel Pogliaghi Track bike. 80's vintage, handbuilt. Thinwall standard diameter tubing. Probably the flexiest bike I've ridden, super easy to see BB and fork flex. - Handbuilt steel road, mid-90s, Columbus OS tubing I think. Kenesis bonded AL fork. Pretty harsh. The carbon forks of the time were much smoother. When I get it from storage (where it's been for a decade), I'm going to put a custom steel fork on it and ride it on sunny days and smooth pavement. - Handbuilt steel 26" road tandem. Late 90's. hand built steel unicrown fork. I _love_ this bike. It's running wide Rene Herse tires now. It is so planted on descents with bad pavement. My next single is going to try to replicate the feel of this bike in a single. (probably something like a Crust Lightning Bolt, if I can get one in the EU) - An Al Redline Cross bike (kinesis unicrown alu fork, which was an out and out noodle), and later with a Surly crosscheck fork (harsh, heavy). Very comfy till I killed the fork. Sadly, there's a fatigue crack at the bottom bracket. - An over stiff Al gravel bike (PlanetX Full Monty) w/ carbon fork, mildly redeemed by 650cx48 RH tires. It's so stiff that standing really isn't encouraged, the bike just feels dead. - Inexpensive Carbon road bike (PlanetX pro carbon) with carbon fork. Nice enough for the 6k miles I used it, but I'm done with 25c tires and no space for fenders. It's no faster than the gravel bike, despite being 4 kilos lighter. - Mid 90's Cannondale 3.0 frame. Stiff. I greatly preferred the Steel one that replaced it. My experience would say -- The forks really matter. The lighter unicrown forks are so much better than the super stiff ones. Wide, supple tires matter too. They're a good 7+% faster on the tandem, and probably the only reason I like riding the AL Gravel bike.
      - deebosong 4y ago
        Appreciate the info on the forks. Wish I paid more attention to them (and had more access to various ones). All your testing & experimenting & getting to sample the goods sounds absolutely fun though.
    - SyzygistSix 4y ago
      I have two keep-for-life bicycles made from Reynolds 853 steel and both are exquisite. I'm not sure what the modern equivalent is. But I need to find out soon-ish. I need one more nice touring/gravel bike for my final two decades of riding.
  - Gualdrapo 4y ago
    From the Prodigiosa (part of Gios which still makes steel bikes following their philosophy from the 70s-80s bicycles) website[0]: > - The true quality of a frame is felt in the descents - In a racing bicycle, half a degree in the construction of the frame is more important than half a kilo in its weight - 20 grams on the wheels are more important than 500 grams on the frame - The tubes of a frame are like the ingredients of a dish. All are important but the taste depends on the skill of the chef - A racing bicycle must be made to measure - The bicycle is the heritage of Italian Culture, and we must preserve it - A steel frame is like a gold coin. It keeps it's value as the years pass by - The frame is the heart of the bicycle, and the groupset merely the clothes it puts on [0] http://www.prodigiosa.it/index.php/telaio http://www.prodigiosa.it/index.php/telaio
SyzygistSix 4y ago
When I was working in a shop I had the opportunity to ride a lot of different bikes. Generally steel felt less harsh which allows for longer rides and tracked significantly better. Although this was a couple decades ago.
petre 4y ago
There's more nuance to that. A 4130 steel frame with oversize top and seat tubes and thicker walls (0.9/0.7/0.9 mm) typically used on touring bikes is also going to be stiff. A too thin down tube will make the bottom bracket flex too much. This is a quality modern steel tube set: https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/columbus-spirit-tube-set/ https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/columbus-spirit-tube-set/ A frame will retail to at least 4x times as much. https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/cinelli-nemo-tig-disc-frameset/ https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/cinelli-nemo-tig-disc-frameset/
boc 4y ago
I'll say it also depends on the fabrication method. I have an Allez Sprint from a few years ago - it's aluminum alloy with carbon forks+seat, but the joints are welded a few inches away from the joints instead of right at the joint. The result is a stronger bike and an extremely responsive ride that I enjoy for rides <50m miles. You'll feel everything in the pavement, which is both a good and bad thing depending on your preferences. For longer rides it's hard to beat my old-school fully lugged steel frame on flat routes, but the added weight usually isn't worth the tradeoff for me.
w_TF 4y ago
what matters more than anything is frame geometry, this has much more influence on how a bike feels than frame material older aluminum frames have a reputation for feeling harsh, but it's not because they're made out of aluminum
- wiredfool 4y ago
  In a way, it was, because they could go super large tubes without the weight penalty. Kleins and the Cannondale 3.0 and 2.8 were the first to really crank the dial on stiffness, when a lot of the other bikes were running normal or +1 oversized tubes. They were super harsh because they were aiming for stiffness, and the material allowed them to do that.
steelframe 4y ago
> Have you ridden aluminium bikes in a way that lets you compare? I rode a boring old aluminum 6061 GT for a couple of years back in ~2010, and I now own a Cannondale CAAD12 aluminum alloy frame. I ended up putting it full-time on trainer duty. I thought it was stiff, and the overall "feeling" was crisp. If I were feeling uncharitable I might say it's harder to control. I hear the CAAD13 frames improve on ride quality. I've found it very difficult to find a non-steel bike that offers the same ride characteristics that I've become accustomed to. And honestly at this point I don't have a lot of time and incentive to keep trying different things when I feel I've found something that just works really well for me.
whakim 4y ago
It's almost impossible (for any of us) to do an apples-to-apples comparison, because there are a huge number of non-frame-material variables: tires, wheels, bars, seatpost, fork, geometry, etc. etc. Some of these factors (e.g. tires) make a far greater difference than frame material. Even if you could isolate the frame material, different materials can be tuned in different ways for different purposes. I therefore don't think it's worth focusing much on the "feel" of different frame materials.

by ehnto 4y ago

baggsie 4y ago

A good alu frame is more comfortable than a cheap steel or carbon frame IME. I think a lot of the perceived differences comes down to tyres rather than frame material - steel bikes are much more likely to have >35mm tyres than alu with 25 - 28mm.

SyzygistSix 4y ago
And a really good steel frame (or titanium that has been butted to ride like steel) is even more enjoyable still, at least for a lot of folks. A hand built steel frame is luxurious and will ride like a dream.
- zardo 4y ago
  > A hand built steel frame is luxurious and will ride like a dream. Surely that depends on the hands.
- deebosong 4y ago
  I've tried the following: • steel, straight-gauge Hi-Ten from the mid 90's • steel, double-butted, Columbus SL from the late 70's/ early 80's • steel, double-butted, Tange 1 from the late 80's • steel, not sure but it was a Kona Rova from 2020 I believe • aluminum, Cannondale R300 from the mid 90's • aluminum, Specialized SmartWeld DSW from 2016 • aluminum, Cannondale Synapse from the late 2010's I personally love Columbus SL. I believe it was 0.1 mm thicker all around than even the Tange 1 bike in numbers (but I'm not sure if both triangles were double-butted or only the main one). But it feels springier, even with the same wheels & tires & components swapped between the two frames. I didn't mind the Cannondale Synapse. It subjectively felt better than the Smartweld aluminum, but the difference could have been in the wider tires on the Synapse (versus the Spesh). The Kona Rove... for some reason was a bit of a letdown. People seem to love that bike, though. And Hi-Ten is as stiff and clunky as everyone says. Pure beater material right there. But the Cannondale R300's mid 90's aluminum was even harsher and wrist-numbing. It'll rattle you to your core! All of this is anecdotal & subjective, though. I've learned to compensate the added road-noise from the Specialized aluminum by hovering off my saddle and bending my elbows a bit while loosening my grip. But man, I love that racing steel bike. It makes me wanna try Tange Prestige of the road variety, and Ti as well. Only other thing I'm super curious about is CAAD 12 Aluminum, but on forums I've read that CAAD 12's are slightly harsher than SuperSix Evo's (all carbon). ––– Edited to include some other bikes & models
  - wiredfool 4y ago
    I've ridden (mostly in the 60cm sizes): - Steel Pogliaghi Track bike. 80's vintage, handbuilt. Thinwall standard diameter tubing. Probably the flexiest bike I've ridden, super easy to see BB and fork flex. - Handbuilt steel road, mid-90s, Columbus OS tubing I think. Kenesis bonded AL fork. Pretty harsh. The carbon forks of the time were much smoother. When I get it from storage (where it's been for a decade), I'm going to put a custom steel fork on it and ride it on sunny days and smooth pavement. - Handbuilt steel 26" road tandem. Late 90's. hand built steel unicrown fork. I _love_ this bike. It's running wide Rene Herse tires now. It is so planted on descents with bad pavement. My next single is going to try to replicate the feel of this bike in a single. (probably something like a Crust Lightning Bolt, if I can get one in the EU) - An Al Redline Cross bike (kinesis unicrown alu fork, which was an out and out noodle), and later with a Surly crosscheck fork (harsh, heavy). Very comfy till I killed the fork. Sadly, there's a fatigue crack at the bottom bracket. - An over stiff Al gravel bike (PlanetX Full Monty) w/ carbon fork, mildly redeemed by 650cx48 RH tires. It's so stiff that standing really isn't encouraged, the bike just feels dead. - Inexpensive Carbon road bike (PlanetX pro carbon) with carbon fork. Nice enough for the 6k miles I used it, but I'm done with 25c tires and no space for fenders. It's no faster than the gravel bike, despite being 4 kilos lighter. - Mid 90's Cannondale 3.0 frame. Stiff. I greatly preferred the Steel one that replaced it. My experience would say -- The forks really matter. The lighter unicrown forks are so much better than the super stiff ones. Wide, supple tires matter too. They're a good 7+% faster on the tandem, and probably the only reason I like riding the AL Gravel bike.
    - deebosong 4y ago
      Appreciate the info on the forks. Wish I paid more attention to them (and had more access to various ones). All your testing & experimenting & getting to sample the goods sounds absolutely fun though.
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    I have two keep-for-life bicycles made from Reynolds 853 steel and both are exquisite. I'm not sure what the modern equivalent is. But I need to find out soon-ish. I need one more nice touring/gravel bike for my final two decades of riding.
- Gualdrapo 4y ago
  From the Prodigiosa (part of Gios which still makes steel bikes following their philosophy from the 70s-80s bicycles) website[0]: > - The true quality of a frame is felt in the descents - In a racing bicycle, half a degree in the construction of the frame is more important than half a kilo in its weight - 20 grams on the wheels are more important than 500 grams on the frame - The tubes of a frame are like the ingredients of a dish. All are important but the taste depends on the skill of the chef - A racing bicycle must be made to measure - The bicycle is the heritage of Italian Culture, and we must preserve it - A steel frame is like a gold coin. It keeps it's value as the years pass by - The frame is the heart of the bicycle, and the groupset merely the clothes it puts on [0] http://www.prodigiosa.it/index.php/telaio http://www.prodigiosa.it/index.php/telaio

SyzygistSix 4y ago

When I was working in a shop I had the opportunity to ride a lot of different bikes. Generally steel felt less harsh which allows for longer rides and tracked significantly better. Although this was a couple decades ago.

petre 4y ago

There's more nuance to that. A 4130 steel frame with oversize top and seat tubes and thicker walls (0.9/0.7/0.9 mm) typically used on touring bikes is also going to be stiff. A too thin down tube will make the bottom bracket flex too much. This is a quality modern steel tube set: https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/columbus-spirit-tube-set/ https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/columbus-spirit-tube-set/ A frame will retail to at least 4x times as much. https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/cinelli-nemo-tig-disc-frameset/ https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/cinelli-nemo-tig-disc-frameset/

boc 4y ago

I'll say it also depends on the fabrication method. I have an Allez Sprint from a few years ago - it's aluminum alloy with carbon forks+seat, but the joints are welded a few inches away from the joints instead of right at the joint. The result is a stronger bike and an extremely responsive ride that I enjoy for rides <50m miles. You'll feel everything in the pavement, which is both a good and bad thing depending on your preferences. For longer rides it's hard to beat my old-school fully lugged steel frame on flat routes, but the added weight usually isn't worth the tradeoff for me.

w_TF 4y ago

what matters more than anything is frame geometry, this has much more influence on how a bike feels than frame material older aluminum frames have a reputation for feeling harsh, but it's not because they're made out of aluminum

wiredfool 4y ago
In a way, it was, because they could go super large tubes without the weight penalty. Kleins and the Cannondale 3.0 and 2.8 were the first to really crank the dial on stiffness, when a lot of the other bikes were running normal or +1 oversized tubes. They were super harsh because they were aiming for stiffness, and the material allowed them to do that.

steelframe 4y ago

> Have you ridden aluminium bikes in a way that lets you compare? I rode a boring old aluminum 6061 GT for a couple of years back in ~2010, and I now own a Cannondale CAAD12 aluminum alloy frame. I ended up putting it full-time on trainer duty. I thought it was stiff, and the overall "feeling" was crisp. If I were feeling uncharitable I might say it's harder to control. I hear the CAAD13 frames improve on ride quality. I've found it very difficult to find a non-steel bike that offers the same ride characteristics that I've become accustomed to. And honestly at this point I don't have a lot of time and incentive to keep trying different things when I feel I've found something that just works really well for me.

whakim 4y ago

It's almost impossible (for any of us) to do an apples-to-apples comparison, because there are a huge number of non-frame-material variables: tires, wheels, bars, seatpost, fork, geometry, etc. etc. Some of these factors (e.g. tires) make a far greater difference than frame material. Even if you could isolate the frame material, different materials can be tuned in different ways for different purposes. I therefore don't think it's worth focusing much on the "feel" of different frame materials.