4 ms·

I don't have the domain expertise nor the time to address everything you've posted - and maybe these aren't valid reasons to distrust what you've shared - but I

by ausbah 4y ago

I don't have the domain expertise nor the time to address everything you've posted - and maybe these aren't valid reasons to distrust what you've shared - but I'm skeptical of your conclusion bc many are unreviewed studies from over a year ago by authors who don't have relevant background, and few are straight up right wing rags full of conspiracy theories & other nonsense.

z3c0 4y ago
Since COVID, I've noticed a "quantity over quality" strategy deployed en massé by the pseudo-intellectual right. It allows one to give the impression of a well-researched response without doing any of the needed work. It's almost as if they realize that posting a wall of links will daunt most into not questioning them, even if most of the links wouldn't survive a hint of scrutiny.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - z3c0 4y ago
    You might need a preening; your feathers are looking rustled.
  - ffssffss 4y ago
    This is exactly the quantity over quality tactic that he's talking about. "You aren't qualified to debate me unless you read this pile of links to conspiracy blogs and unreviewed open access publications". Nobody is going to engage with that, since the best outcome we can expect is to carefully refute each one, only for you to show up with another pile and again demand we play along.
- npteljes 4y ago
  Maybe it's a Gish gallop, but with source material.
  - z3c0 4y ago
    As someone who studies propaganda (especially disinformation), I'm amazed that I've never encountered the term "Gish gallop" before. Having researched it now, I'd say you've described the phenomenon perfectly.
    - npteljes 4y ago
      I'm happy to have added a nuance! I know the term from my Rationalwiki binge, although it's even found on the regular Wikipedia. I don't know how much Rationalwiki is up your alley, they have several articles on propaganda and logic & rethoric, I personally found them enlightening (and entertaining!).
      - z3c0 4y ago
        Very up my alley - I've encountered it in the past scouring the web, but haven't spent too much time there. I'll make a point to frequent it more.
t0bia_s 4y ago
So why bother to judge something that you refuse to read? Are you serious? Graphs from EU data about excess mortality are conspiracy theories now?
- mikeyouse 4y ago
  Posting charts reflecting excess mortality during a pandemic and attributing that to the vaccine gives the game away a bit, no?
- nerdponx 4y ago
  > So why bother to judge something that you refuse to read? They did read it, and concluded it wasn't useful. > Graphs from EU data about excess mortality are conspiracy theories now? Excess mortality, by design, does not say anything about causes. In the USA for example, you can hypothesize a variety of plausible reasons for continued high excess mortality, pandemic-related and otherwise (increased crime, lower incomes, decreased access to non-Covid healthcare, increased highway speeds, et alia), but the excess mortality number itself cannot tell you the relative strengths of those causes.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    "They did read it, and concluded it wasn't useful.“ Response was few minutes after post. No wonder that answer is not even related to content of links.
    - nerdponx 4y ago
      This is a wildly disingenuous response. If you claim that you saw Bigfoot, and your evidence is a sketch on the back of a napkin, I don't need to carefully study the sketch to reject it as useful evidence.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  tbh, I didn't see any establishment of causal relationship with excess mortality. This is like debugging a program by looking at the git history, without actually seriously thinking about what the bug actually is. It could be something recent. It could be something that was messed up ages ago and is only coming to rear its head now.
nerdponx 4y ago
You should see the trash that gets posted in anti-vaccine groups. There are whole nutritional and supplement protocols meant to counteract "vaccine damage", and these pseudo-science studies get paraded around like religious texts.

by ausbah 4y ago

z3c0 4y ago

Since COVID, I've noticed a "quantity over quality" strategy deployed en massé by the pseudo-intellectual right. It allows one to give the impression of a well-researched response without doing any of the needed work. It's almost as if they realize that posting a wall of links will daunt most into not questioning them, even if most of the links wouldn't survive a hint of scrutiny.

t0bia_s 4y ago
[flagged]
- z3c0 4y ago
  You might need a preening; your feathers are looking rustled.
- ffssffss 4y ago
  This is exactly the quantity over quality tactic that he's talking about. "You aren't qualified to debate me unless you read this pile of links to conspiracy blogs and unreviewed open access publications". Nobody is going to engage with that, since the best outcome we can expect is to carefully refute each one, only for you to show up with another pile and again demand we play along.
npteljes 4y ago
Maybe it's a Gish gallop, but with source material.
- z3c0 4y ago
  As someone who studies propaganda (especially disinformation), I'm amazed that I've never encountered the term "Gish gallop" before. Having researched it now, I'd say you've described the phenomenon perfectly.
  - npteljes 4y ago
    I'm happy to have added a nuance! I know the term from my Rationalwiki binge, although it's even found on the regular Wikipedia. I don't know how much Rationalwiki is up your alley, they have several articles on propaganda and logic & rethoric, I personally found them enlightening (and entertaining!).
    - z3c0 4y ago
      Very up my alley - I've encountered it in the past scouring the web, but haven't spent too much time there. I'll make a point to frequent it more.

t0bia_s 4y ago

So why bother to judge something that you refuse to read? Are you serious? Graphs from EU data about excess mortality are conspiracy theories now?

mikeyouse 4y ago
Posting charts reflecting excess mortality during a pandemic and attributing that to the vaccine gives the game away a bit, no?
nerdponx 4y ago
> So why bother to judge something that you refuse to read? They did read it, and concluded it wasn't useful. > Graphs from EU data about excess mortality are conspiracy theories now? Excess mortality, by design, does not say anything about causes. In the USA for example, you can hypothesize a variety of plausible reasons for continued high excess mortality, pandemic-related and otherwise (increased crime, lower incomes, decreased access to non-Covid healthcare, increased highway speeds, et alia), but the excess mortality number itself cannot tell you the relative strengths of those causes.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  "They did read it, and concluded it wasn't useful.“ Response was few minutes after post. No wonder that answer is not even related to content of links.
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    This is a wildly disingenuous response. If you claim that you saw Bigfoot, and your evidence is a sketch on the back of a napkin, I don't need to carefully study the sketch to reject it as useful evidence.
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
tbh, I didn't see any establishment of causal relationship with excess mortality. This is like debugging a program by looking at the git history, without actually seriously thinking about what the bug actually is. It could be something recent. It could be something that was messed up ages ago and is only coming to rear its head now.

nerdponx 4y ago

You should see the trash that gets posted in anti-vaccine groups. There are whole nutritional and supplement protocols meant to counteract "vaccine damage", and these pseudo-science studies get paraded around like religious texts.