5 ms·

It does affect my property, because if I want to sell my house it has less value if my neighbors are filthy. Would you like to live next to a garbage dump?

yellowapple 4y ago
Your first mistake was treating your house as a speculative asset instead of a house. Pardon me if I don't give an iota of a rodent's buttocks about your precious "property value".
- underdeserver 4y ago
  I'm not rich. I don't have a portfolio of properties. It's not a speculative asset, it's where I poured all my life savings into. And if I need to move, it can make a difference between a small, cramped apartment and a spacious, livable one where I'm moving to.
  - burntwater 4y ago
    Pouring all your live savings into a single asset is your personal choice. It still doesn't change the argument that a home should not be a treated as an investment vehicle. Even if you do choose to use a home as an investment vehicle, putting ALL your life savings into is a poor choice; you should probably downsize and split the savings among other vehicles.
    - underdeserver 4y ago
      It's not an investment vehicle. I just didn't want to be beholden to landlords, so I bought where I live, and it's expensive. There's not a lot of room for downsizing.
TheCleric 4y ago
Where does this logic end though? If I disparage a publicly traded company, and I somehow lower their stock value, do shareholders have a right to stop me?
inetknght 4y ago
> if I want to sell my house it has less value if my neighbors are filthy Cry me a river about your house value. If you want to invest then invest in people. Homes should not be your investment vehicle. Homes should be homes. If you have a filthy neighbor then you should help them to not be filthy. Unfortunately laws can have real costs that some people can't afford. Does your neighbor have a garbage dump on their property? Perhaps you should offer to take their garbage to the dump. Perhaps you should offer to pay for their garbage service. Perhaps you should offer to help them store their collectibles somewhere that won't destroy them from the elements. Perhaps you should try to understand your neighbor instead of decrying your precious lost home value.
- showerst 4y ago
  I have experience on this, and let me tell you, some of the people who believe in the 'fundamental right to have broken down cars in my yard' are _not_ the sort of suffering neighbors who need a community and some understanding. When one of these folks moved in next to my parents my attempt to come introduce myself and drop off a sixer of beer was met with a shotgun.
  - inetknght 4y ago
    > I have experience on this, and let me tell you I also have experience on this, and let me tell you: neighbors' rights end at the property line (laws otherwise notwithstanding). I don't give a flying fuck about your resale value. It's certainly not neighborly to be asocial but there's absolutely nothing wrong it and I'm glad you learned quickly that your new neighbor doesn't want to be disturbed. Again, I don't care about your home's sale value. But demonstrate to me that something I'm doing on my property affects your safety and I will take action to rectify the problem. If I don't then you certainly have laws that can help you.
    - showerst 4y ago
      That's nice that you don't care, people who cost others money rarely do. I hope you move somewhere next to other neighbors who are on the same page, and it all works out fine, and i mean that non-sarcastically. That's why I'm a proponent of these types of laws. You take an action that costs me $X, and then the state comes along and says and you can undo the damage, (easy in this case), compensate me, or go to jail and they'll sell your house. Again, just to be crystal clear here: I don't think there should be a law punishing you for working on your car, or painting your house an ugly shade of green or growing your own tomatoes or whatever. But here in the United States houses are the biggest purchase most people make and if go to such an extreme you make it so I can't sell mine, that's no longer you living your life without hurting anybody. In the case with the gun-toting the rude neighbor, he ended up being more than rude, and went to prison for abusing his children. The bank that took his house cleaned it up, so it all ended sort of tragically. I often wonder what could've gone differently to lead to a better outcome there.
friend_and_foe 4y ago
"I'm getting rats because of your garbage dump" is a completely different case than "ninnies such as myself are using an eyesore that's none of their business to try to fleece me for my equity." Artificial human created abstract excuses to save a buck are not real externalities, they're problems people create for themselves and therefore nobody else's problem.
- admax88qqq 4y ago
  Smell and touch are real externalities but sight is not? Why do some senses get preferential treatment?
  - anikom15 4y ago
    Bad smells usually indicate something toxic that destroys you by breathing it. The only analogue to that for sight is extremely bright light.
  - friend_and_foe 4y ago
    You're arguing a point I did not make.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
Okay, let's run with this. Do I have the right to demand that you repaint your house, because it's starting to look bad and that drags down my property value?
- underdeserver 4y ago
  HN is a hard place to be nuanced, but there's a line. No, you don't get to make me repaint my house. You do get to tell me not to dump all my garbage on my driveway. The line goes somewhere in the middle.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    I would make garbage art in my driveway just for you.
- avgDev 4y ago
  Where I live, your grass cannot exceed a certain height. Your house NEEDS TO BE MAINTANED. If paint is chipping and looking awful THE CITY will force you to take care of it.
BurningFrog 4y ago
This is of course true. But there is a big difference between that which concretely harms you in the moment, and that which makes your home more or less attractive to home buyers.

yellowapple 4y ago

Your first mistake was treating your house as a speculative asset instead of a house. Pardon me if I don't give an iota of a rodent's buttocks about your precious "property value".

underdeserver 4y ago
I'm not rich. I don't have a portfolio of properties. It's not a speculative asset, it's where I poured all my life savings into. And if I need to move, it can make a difference between a small, cramped apartment and a spacious, livable one where I'm moving to.
- burntwater 4y ago
  Pouring all your live savings into a single asset is your personal choice. It still doesn't change the argument that a home should not be a treated as an investment vehicle. Even if you do choose to use a home as an investment vehicle, putting ALL your life savings into is a poor choice; you should probably downsize and split the savings among other vehicles.
  - underdeserver 4y ago
    It's not an investment vehicle. I just didn't want to be beholden to landlords, so I bought where I live, and it's expensive. There's not a lot of room for downsizing.

TheCleric 4y ago

Where does this logic end though? If I disparage a publicly traded company, and I somehow lower their stock value, do shareholders have a right to stop me?

inetknght 4y ago

> if I want to sell my house it has less value if my neighbors are filthy Cry me a river about your house value. If you want to invest then invest in people. Homes should not be your investment vehicle. Homes should be homes. If you have a filthy neighbor then you should help them to not be filthy. Unfortunately laws can have real costs that some people can't afford. Does your neighbor have a garbage dump on their property? Perhaps you should offer to take their garbage to the dump. Perhaps you should offer to pay for their garbage service. Perhaps you should offer to help them store their collectibles somewhere that won't destroy them from the elements. Perhaps you should try to understand your neighbor instead of decrying your precious lost home value.

showerst 4y ago
I have experience on this, and let me tell you, some of the people who believe in the 'fundamental right to have broken down cars in my yard' are _not_ the sort of suffering neighbors who need a community and some understanding. When one of these folks moved in next to my parents my attempt to come introduce myself and drop off a sixer of beer was met with a shotgun.
- inetknght 4y ago
  > I have experience on this, and let me tell you I also have experience on this, and let me tell you: neighbors' rights end at the property line (laws otherwise notwithstanding). I don't give a flying fuck about your resale value. It's certainly not neighborly to be asocial but there's absolutely nothing wrong it and I'm glad you learned quickly that your new neighbor doesn't want to be disturbed. Again, I don't care about your home's sale value. But demonstrate to me that something I'm doing on my property affects your safety and I will take action to rectify the problem. If I don't then you certainly have laws that can help you.
  - showerst 4y ago
    That's nice that you don't care, people who cost others money rarely do. I hope you move somewhere next to other neighbors who are on the same page, and it all works out fine, and i mean that non-sarcastically. That's why I'm a proponent of these types of laws. You take an action that costs me $X, and then the state comes along and says and you can undo the damage, (easy in this case), compensate me, or go to jail and they'll sell your house. Again, just to be crystal clear here: I don't think there should be a law punishing you for working on your car, or painting your house an ugly shade of green or growing your own tomatoes or whatever. But here in the United States houses are the biggest purchase most people make and if go to such an extreme you make it so I can't sell mine, that's no longer you living your life without hurting anybody. In the case with the gun-toting the rude neighbor, he ended up being more than rude, and went to prison for abusing his children. The bank that took his house cleaned it up, so it all ended sort of tragically. I often wonder what could've gone differently to lead to a better outcome there.

friend_and_foe 4y ago

"I'm getting rats because of your garbage dump" is a completely different case than "ninnies such as myself are using an eyesore that's none of their business to try to fleece me for my equity." Artificial human created abstract excuses to save a buck are not real externalities, they're problems people create for themselves and therefore nobody else's problem.

admax88qqq 4y ago
Smell and touch are real externalities but sight is not? Why do some senses get preferential treatment?
- anikom15 4y ago
  Bad smells usually indicate something toxic that destroys you by breathing it. The only analogue to that for sight is extremely bright light.
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  You're arguing a point I did not make.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

Okay, let's run with this. Do I have the right to demand that you repaint your house, because it's starting to look bad and that drags down my property value?

underdeserver 4y ago
HN is a hard place to be nuanced, but there's a line. No, you don't get to make me repaint my house. You do get to tell me not to dump all my garbage on my driveway. The line goes somewhere in the middle.
- lrvick 4y ago
  I would make garbage art in my driveway just for you.
avgDev 4y ago
Where I live, your grass cannot exceed a certain height. Your house NEEDS TO BE MAINTANED. If paint is chipping and looking awful THE CITY will force you to take care of it.

BurningFrog 4y ago

This is of course true. But there is a big difference between that which concretely harms you in the moment, and that which makes your home more or less attractive to home buyers.