3 ms·

Yes but are dispersing power. It’s the same (endless) story as the vinyl VS digital… you can “feel” better the vinyl but the digital is technically better.

rhn_mk1 4y ago
Where is the power dispersed? Typically bike frames are made of elastic materials which return the power that was injected through the deformation. If the power isn't returned, then the deformation was plastic and you have a bent frame, so that isn't really an option.
- giuliomagnifico 4y ago
  Yes but it returns the power when your pedal is at the “death point” and you aren’t making power on the frame, then the power is dispersed through the frame flex when not needed. The frame should be soft vertically on the seat tube.
  - rhn_mk1 4y ago
    I'm not sure if I see it. If you're not putting a force on the frame, then the frame is not twisted, and it doesn't return anything. You have to push in order to recuperate the energy. If you remove the force so fast that the frame doesn't have the time to return the energy back to you, then it will disperse the energy by ringing. But i don't think it's realistic unless you drive your pedals with hammer strikes.
    - zardo 4y ago
      You also have the possibility of transferring that energy into tire deformation and heating.
  - zwieback 4y ago
    I would think that most of the energy goes in between 12 and 3 o'clock and then flexes out from 3 to 6. So if the flex pushes back against your leg a good part of the energy should go back on the road.
ehnto 4y ago
Depends on your goals though I think. Since ride quality and feel is a factor, it's not objectively true that carbon is better than steel. Just that it has better stiffness. Do you want better stiffness? Well it depends entirely on what you are doing and what you want to experience. For example, in a touring bike, you might prefer steels robustness and softer feel for long hauls. Some people might prefer carbon for it's lightness. It's all down to choice, neither is objectively better.
- giuliomagnifico 4y ago
  Yeah absolutely correct but the article was talking about professional cycling. I’m also a cyclist (not touring oriented) and the stuff a bike is, the more I like it. A racing bike should flex vertically but not horizontally.
blacksmith_tb 4y ago
I tend to agree - unless you had the ability to compare the ride of identical frames made of different materials - same angles, same components and tires, I suspect a lot of the 'feel' of the ride comes from having been told steel is more forgiving, aluminum is harsh, etc. We have a lot of very subtle control over the frame, angles, wall thicknesses, and I would expect a skilled builder to be able to produce the desired performance for whatever frame material. That said, there do seem to be some obvious poor choices, I am not going touring on an all-carbon frame that could fail catastrophically in the middle of nowhere, no matter how comfy.

rhn_mk1 4y ago

Where is the power dispersed? Typically bike frames are made of elastic materials which return the power that was injected through the deformation. If the power isn't returned, then the deformation was plastic and you have a bent frame, so that isn't really an option.

giuliomagnifico 4y ago
Yes but it returns the power when your pedal is at the “death point” and you aren’t making power on the frame, then the power is dispersed through the frame flex when not needed. The frame should be soft vertically on the seat tube.
- rhn_mk1 4y ago
  I'm not sure if I see it. If you're not putting a force on the frame, then the frame is not twisted, and it doesn't return anything. You have to push in order to recuperate the energy. If you remove the force so fast that the frame doesn't have the time to return the energy back to you, then it will disperse the energy by ringing. But i don't think it's realistic unless you drive your pedals with hammer strikes.
  - zardo 4y ago
    You also have the possibility of transferring that energy into tire deformation and heating.
- zwieback 4y ago
  I would think that most of the energy goes in between 12 and 3 o'clock and then flexes out from 3 to 6. So if the flex pushes back against your leg a good part of the energy should go back on the road.

ehnto 4y ago

Depends on your goals though I think. Since ride quality and feel is a factor, it's not objectively true that carbon is better than steel. Just that it has better stiffness. Do you want better stiffness? Well it depends entirely on what you are doing and what you want to experience. For example, in a touring bike, you might prefer steels robustness and softer feel for long hauls. Some people might prefer carbon for it's lightness. It's all down to choice, neither is objectively better.

giuliomagnifico 4y ago
Yeah absolutely correct but the article was talking about professional cycling. I’m also a cyclist (not touring oriented) and the stuff a bike is, the more I like it. A racing bike should flex vertically but not horizontally.

blacksmith_tb 4y ago

I tend to agree - unless you had the ability to compare the ride of identical frames made of different materials - same angles, same components and tires, I suspect a lot of the 'feel' of the ride comes from having been told steel is more forgiving, aluminum is harsh, etc. We have a lot of very subtle control over the frame, angles, wall thicknesses, and I would expect a skilled builder to be able to produce the desired performance for whatever frame material. That said, there do seem to be some obvious poor choices, I am not going touring on an all-carbon frame that could fail catastrophically in the middle of nowhere, no matter how comfy.