5 ms·

If I'm doing my repairs in my garage, what does it matter to you whether I'm constantly working on my personal cars or other people's cars?

by akerl_ 4y ago

mschuster91 4y ago
Simple: built-in expectations. A residential zone comes with the expectation for everyone buying a property inside the zone that traffic will be the people living there and occasional visitors, that noise and emissions will be kept to the usual amount caused by people living and the likes and that car repairs are limited to stuff like changing your tires. If you're running a commercial shop fixing up cars, you are violating the expectations of a property in a residential zone: your property attracts more vehicle traffic, possibly even from heavy tow trucks, your property emits noise from all the tools or from vehicles running without (or with defective) mufflers, your property emits smells of fuel, chemicals or burning stuff. If you're just fixing up your own car, you cause way less of these emissions, and way less annoyance for your neighbors. In short: your neighbors signed up for peace and quiet guaranteed by the residential zoning, and you are violating that agreement.
- ecshafer 4y ago
  Residential Zones are government inflicted tyranny. A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. Zoning needs to be abolished, or at minimum drastically relaxed to a more sane system like Japans. I have no issue with my neighbor fixing his car, or charging for it. Why would I?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. Vehicles need to be stored somewhere, which means either they abuse and block the street or you have a giant ass parking lot eyesore. > The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. WTF, where do zoning laws infringe on people's rights? Everyone has the freedom to choose where to buy or rent a property, and if you're not fine with living in a residential zone, then buy a property in a mixed use zone! Re-zoning operations are more of an issue, but these usually have to be decided at higher levels of democratically elected governances anyway.
    - ecshafer 4y ago
      > They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. So? What's bad about that? > where do zoning jobs infringe on people's rights? If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human.
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        > So? What's bad about that? Easy: other people bought their property at a premium for the government guarantee that they would be able to live in quiet and peace. If you want to not abide by these rules, you have to go and buy a property in a zone that does not come with these rules. > If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human. Then buy a property that does not come with restrictions. You live as part of a society, so respect at least the basic rules of that society. You wanna know why so many HOAs turn out to be so "dictatorial"? Because they all had that one person too many who decided that they didn't care about their neighbors.
        akerl_ 4y ago
        I think y'all are just fundamentally working from different starting points. Sure, if part of the agreement when I bought a property was "government guarantee that they would be able to live in quiet and peace", then enforcing that makes sense. But in the US, there is no such general guarantee.
        petodo 4y ago
        It neither really is in Europe, you have right to quiet between 22-06, but that's pretty much it. The poster defending blanket bans is German. Germany is one of those countries with excessive regulations and would be one of my last options to move within Europe. It reminds me of people from town apartments moving to village house and then complaining about rooster making noise, tractor in the street making noise or someone dare to use circular saw on weekend! I mean I moved next to fire station (maybe 200m direct unobstructed view), should I go complaining about their sirens? Though I'd appreciate if they used just lights after like 2000 when kids go sleep and there is really no need for sirens because of minimal traffic anyway until first junction.
- holbrad 4y ago
  I'm not convinced that residential zoning should even exist. (UK planning permission seems crazy) Seeing some of the new housing estates pop up near me with zero amenities is shocking. No shops, no chippy, no pubs, no hair dressers etc. Meaning you have to drive to do absolutely anything, this is a far cry from the older village I live in with a first school, nursery, two pubs, shops, bus stops, a chippy, local mechanic and barbers all within easy walking distance. These business add a lot to the property value (Especially the school) and are a positive to the residents, it's crazy how we've adopted a more American approach to planning... (We need to do the opposite)
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Here in Germany, new residential areas are carefully planned to include space for all the mentioned amenities. The key thing is that these decisions are made by democratically elected representatives, although developers can also give their input.

If I'm doing my repairs in my garage, what does it matter to you whether I'm constantly working on my personal cars or other people's cars?

by akerl_ 4y ago

If I'm doing my repairs in my garage, what does it matter to you whether I'm constantly working on my personal cars or other people's cars?

mschuster91 4y ago

Simple: built-in expectations. A residential zone comes with the expectation for everyone buying a property inside the zone that traffic will be the people living there and occasional visitors, that noise and emissions will be kept to the usual amount caused by people living and the likes and that car repairs are limited to stuff like changing your tires. If you're running a commercial shop fixing up cars, you are violating the expectations of a property in a residential zone: your property attracts more vehicle traffic, possibly even from heavy tow trucks, your property emits noise from all the tools or from vehicles running without (or with defective) mufflers, your property emits smells of fuel, chemicals or burning stuff. If you're just fixing up your own car, you cause way less of these emissions, and way less annoyance for your neighbors. In short: your neighbors signed up for peace and quiet guaranteed by the residential zoning, and you are violating that agreement.

ecshafer 4y ago
Residential Zones are government inflicted tyranny. A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. Zoning needs to be abolished, or at minimum drastically relaxed to a more sane system like Japans. I have no issue with my neighbor fixing his car, or charging for it. Why would I?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. Vehicles need to be stored somewhere, which means either they abuse and block the street or you have a giant ass parking lot eyesore. > The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. WTF, where do zoning laws infringe on people's rights? Everyone has the freedom to choose where to buy or rent a property, and if you're not fine with living in a residential zone, then buy a property in a mixed use zone! Re-zoning operations are more of an issue, but these usually have to be decided at higher levels of democratically elected governances anyway.
  - ecshafer 4y ago
    > They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. So? What's bad about that? > where do zoning jobs infringe on people's rights? If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human.
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      > So? What's bad about that? Easy: other people bought their property at a premium for the government guarantee that they would be able to live in quiet and peace. If you want to not abide by these rules, you have to go and buy a property in a zone that does not come with these rules. > If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human. Then buy a property that does not come with restrictions. You live as part of a society, so respect at least the basic rules of that society. You wanna know why so many HOAs turn out to be so "dictatorial"? Because they all had that one person too many who decided that they didn't care about their neighbors.
      - akerl_ 4y ago
        I think y'all are just fundamentally working from different starting points. Sure, if part of the agreement when I bought a property was "government guarantee that they would be able to live in quiet and peace", then enforcing that makes sense. But in the US, there is no such general guarantee.
        petodo 4y ago
        It neither really is in Europe, you have right to quiet between 22-06, but that's pretty much it. The poster defending blanket bans is German. Germany is one of those countries with excessive regulations and would be one of my last options to move within Europe. It reminds me of people from town apartments moving to village house and then complaining about rooster making noise, tractor in the street making noise or someone dare to use circular saw on weekend! I mean I moved next to fire station (maybe 200m direct unobstructed view), should I go complaining about their sirens? Though I'd appreciate if they used just lights after like 2000 when kids go sleep and there is really no need for sirens because of minimal traffic anyway until first junction.
holbrad 4y ago
I'm not convinced that residential zoning should even exist. (UK planning permission seems crazy) Seeing some of the new housing estates pop up near me with zero amenities is shocking. No shops, no chippy, no pubs, no hair dressers etc. Meaning you have to drive to do absolutely anything, this is a far cry from the older village I live in with a first school, nursery, two pubs, shops, bus stops, a chippy, local mechanic and barbers all within easy walking distance. These business add a lot to the property value (Especially the school) and are a positive to the residents, it's crazy how we've adopted a more American approach to planning... (We need to do the opposite)
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Here in Germany, new residential areas are carefully planned to include space for all the mentioned amenities. The key thing is that these decisions are made by democratically elected representatives, although developers can also give their input.