3 ms·

Sorry, what? Am I understanding you correctly that your recommendation is for lower income people to rent a plot of land somewhere just so that you don't have t

by akerl_ 4y ago

Sorry, what? Am I understanding you correctly that your recommendation is for lower income people to rent a plot of land somewhere just so that you don't have to deal with them using a specialty automotive tool in their garage?

mschuster91 4y ago
> just so that you don't have to deal with them using a specialty automotive tool in their garage? FTFY: so that they don't run a commercial operation causing noise, emissions and traffic in a residential zone. Don't make profit off of just loading off the externality cost of your operation on the back of your neighbors. It's not that hard to grasp.
- akerl_ 4y ago
  If I'm doing my repairs in my garage, what does it matter to you whether I'm constantly working on my personal cars or other people's cars?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Simple: built-in expectations. A residential zone comes with the expectation for everyone buying a property inside the zone that traffic will be the people living there and occasional visitors, that noise and emissions will be kept to the usual amount caused by people living and the likes and that car repairs are limited to stuff like changing your tires. If you're running a commercial shop fixing up cars, you are violating the expectations of a property in a residential zone: your property attracts more vehicle traffic, possibly even from heavy tow trucks, your property emits noise from all the tools or from vehicles running without (or with defective) mufflers, your property emits smells of fuel, chemicals or burning stuff. If you're just fixing up your own car, you cause way less of these emissions, and way less annoyance for your neighbors. In short: your neighbors signed up for peace and quiet guaranteed by the residential zoning, and you are violating that agreement.
    - ecshafer 4y ago
      Residential Zones are government inflicted tyranny. A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. Zoning needs to be abolished, or at minimum drastically relaxed to a more sane system like Japans. I have no issue with my neighbor fixing his car, or charging for it. Why would I?
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        > A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. Vehicles need to be stored somewhere, which means either they abuse and block the street or you have a giant ass parking lot eyesore. > The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. WTF, where do zoning laws infringe on people's rights? Everyone has the freedom to choose where to buy or rent a property, and if you're not fine with living in a residential zone, then buy a property in a mixed use zone! Re-zoning operations are more of an issue, but these usually have to be decided at higher levels of democratically elected governances anyway.
        ecshafer 4y ago
        > They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. So? What's bad about that? > where do zoning jobs infringe on people's rights? If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human.
        mschuster91 4y ago
        > So? What's bad about that? Easy: other people bought their property at a premium for the government guarantee that they would be able to live in quiet and peace. If you want to not abide by these rules, you have to go and buy a property in a zone that does not come with these rules. > If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human. Then buy a property that does not come with restrictions. You live as part of a society, so respect at least the basic rules of that society. You wanna know why so many HOAs turn out to be so "dictatorial"? Because they all had that one person too many who decided that they didn't care about their neighbors.
P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
They're talking about mechanics renting space so they don't have to do in their driveway, it has nothing to do with being poor.

by akerl_ 4y ago

mschuster91 4y ago

> just so that you don't have to deal with them using a specialty automotive tool in their garage? FTFY: so that they don't run a commercial operation causing noise, emissions and traffic in a residential zone. Don't make profit off of just loading off the externality cost of your operation on the back of your neighbors. It's not that hard to grasp.

akerl_ 4y ago
If I'm doing my repairs in my garage, what does it matter to you whether I'm constantly working on my personal cars or other people's cars?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Simple: built-in expectations. A residential zone comes with the expectation for everyone buying a property inside the zone that traffic will be the people living there and occasional visitors, that noise and emissions will be kept to the usual amount caused by people living and the likes and that car repairs are limited to stuff like changing your tires. If you're running a commercial shop fixing up cars, you are violating the expectations of a property in a residential zone: your property attracts more vehicle traffic, possibly even from heavy tow trucks, your property emits noise from all the tools or from vehicles running without (or with defective) mufflers, your property emits smells of fuel, chemicals or burning stuff. If you're just fixing up your own car, you cause way less of these emissions, and way less annoyance for your neighbors. In short: your neighbors signed up for peace and quiet guaranteed by the residential zoning, and you are violating that agreement.
  - ecshafer 4y ago
    Residential Zones are government inflicted tyranny. A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. Zoning needs to be abolished, or at minimum drastically relaxed to a more sane system like Japans. I have no issue with my neighbor fixing his car, or charging for it. Why would I?
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      > A basic car repair garage, a machine shop, coffee shop, barber, etc. basically cause 0 noise. They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. Vehicles need to be stored somewhere, which means either they abuse and block the street or you have a giant ass parking lot eyesore. > The idea of zoning towns into different districts infringes on people's rights, and is also economically disastrous causing trillions in lost gdp in the US alone. WTF, where do zoning laws infringe on people's rights? Everyone has the freedom to choose where to buy or rent a property, and if you're not fine with living in a residential zone, then buy a property in a mixed use zone! Re-zoning operations are more of an issue, but these usually have to be decided at higher levels of democratically elected governances anyway.
      - ecshafer 4y ago
        > They attract traffic, pedestrian and vehicular. So? What's bad about that? > where do zoning jobs infringe on people's rights? If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human.
        mschuster91 4y ago
        > So? What's bad about that? Easy: other people bought their property at a premium for the government guarantee that they would be able to live in quiet and peace. If you want to not abide by these rules, you have to go and buy a property in a zone that does not come with these rules. > If I own property, I have a right to use that property as I see fit. I should be able to build a building on it, take the building down, build a business, this is a fundamental right of being a human. Then buy a property that does not come with restrictions. You live as part of a society, so respect at least the basic rules of that society. You wanna know why so many HOAs turn out to be so "dictatorial"? Because they all had that one person too many who decided that they didn't care about their neighbors.

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

They're talking about mechanics renting space so they don't have to do in their driveway, it has nothing to do with being poor.