4 ms·

Do you know of any examples of jurisdictions that recognize a property owner's right to protection from neighboring property owners' smells? I've heard several

by akerl_ 4y ago

Do you know of any examples of jurisdictions that recognize a property owner's right to protection from neighboring property owners' smells? I've heard several anecdotes about people whose neighbors picked up a hobby that generated downwind impact, but the only times I've heard of the neighbor being made to stop were in cases where an HOA existed.

mschuster91 4y ago
I'm German, we have a ton of court cases dealing with smell emissions (mostly, grills and heavy smokers), and these almost always end up with the emitter losing because they impact their neighbors in an amount that courts see as unreasonable. Basically, "don't be an arsehole" in legalese.
- akerl_ 4y ago
  Interesting. It's worth pointing out that in general (though I'm still curious if there are examples here), the legal landscape in the US is weighted heavily in the other direction. One of the examples I'm directly familiar with was a friend who ended up moving because their neighbor picked up meat smoking as a hobby, and the wind was carrying nearly 24/7 smoke downwind into my friend's house.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > and the wind was carrying nearly 24/7 smoke downwind into my friend's house At that point, he'd probably get a C&D order filed against him for emissions and a decent fine on top as well. That's why I love the German system: people are protected from the influence of bad actors, not the other way around.
    - Zpalmtree 4y ago
      smoking meats makes you a 'bad actor'?
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        As soon as a neighbor is impacted so massively they are forced to move away, yes it absolutely makes you a bad actor. FFS, if you plan on taking up a hobby that causes pollution, do at least the bare minimum and check out with your neighbors first and install appropriate mitigation measures (filters and scrubbers). Or, if you want to be a really good person, offer your neighbors some pieces of meat in exchange for tolerating the emissions.
        dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        >As soon as a neighbor is impacted so massively they are forced to move away, yes it absolutely makes you a bad actor. Civic engagement with the goal of infringing upon your neighbors' right to use their property in whatever manner they see fit frequently meets these criteria. You are the bad actor. Furthermore, policy informed by sentiments like yours have been tried and failed. Strict separation of commercial and residential activity is why places like LA and SF are the sprawled suburban wastelands they are today. You wanna live in the city? That means dealing with city stuff, which means hearing and smelling your neighbors and maybe a good old fashioned riot every 50yr or so. If you would prefer bugs, heat and the occasional devastating weather event every several decades move to Florida.
        mschuster91 4y ago
        > Furthermore, policy informed by sentiments like yours have been tried and failed. We have been running this kind of policy for decades in Germany, and the only ones complaining are people who don't care about their neighbors and society but only care for themselves and their enjoyment. > That means dealing with city stuff, which means hearing and smelling your neighbors and maybe a good old fashioned riot every 50yr or so. Surprise, I'm living right in the inner area of Munich. The only thing causing noise here is the street with an active 5-10 minute service bus line, and that's gotten better as the buses began to be switched over to hybrid and recently electric models. When we make a bbq event or a birthday party, it's customary here to ask the neighbors if it's OK, and to offer to come around for a beer and a steak. It's called "not being an arsehole on purpose", a concept that seems to be very foreign to Americans, at least on Reddit.
ghaff 4y ago
In the US, a lot of places have restrictions on raising livestock for example which can certainly have downwind impact, for example. My town is a Massachusetts right to farm town (as many are) though I don't know the exact details of the bylaws in my town.

by akerl_ 4y ago

mschuster91 4y ago

I'm German, we have a ton of court cases dealing with smell emissions (mostly, grills and heavy smokers), and these almost always end up with the emitter losing because they impact their neighbors in an amount that courts see as unreasonable. Basically, "don't be an arsehole" in legalese.

akerl_ 4y ago
Interesting. It's worth pointing out that in general (though I'm still curious if there are examples here), the legal landscape in the US is weighted heavily in the other direction. One of the examples I'm directly familiar with was a friend who ended up moving because their neighbor picked up meat smoking as a hobby, and the wind was carrying nearly 24/7 smoke downwind into my friend's house.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > and the wind was carrying nearly 24/7 smoke downwind into my friend's house At that point, he'd probably get a C&D order filed against him for emissions and a decent fine on top as well. That's why I love the German system: people are protected from the influence of bad actors, not the other way around.
  - Zpalmtree 4y ago
    smoking meats makes you a 'bad actor'?
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      As soon as a neighbor is impacted so massively they are forced to move away, yes it absolutely makes you a bad actor. FFS, if you plan on taking up a hobby that causes pollution, do at least the bare minimum and check out with your neighbors first and install appropriate mitigation measures (filters and scrubbers). Or, if you want to be a really good person, offer your neighbors some pieces of meat in exchange for tolerating the emissions.
      - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        >As soon as a neighbor is impacted so massively they are forced to move away, yes it absolutely makes you a bad actor. Civic engagement with the goal of infringing upon your neighbors' right to use their property in whatever manner they see fit frequently meets these criteria. You are the bad actor. Furthermore, policy informed by sentiments like yours have been tried and failed. Strict separation of commercial and residential activity is why places like LA and SF are the sprawled suburban wastelands they are today. You wanna live in the city? That means dealing with city stuff, which means hearing and smelling your neighbors and maybe a good old fashioned riot every 50yr or so. If you would prefer bugs, heat and the occasional devastating weather event every several decades move to Florida.
        mschuster91 4y ago
        > Furthermore, policy informed by sentiments like yours have been tried and failed. We have been running this kind of policy for decades in Germany, and the only ones complaining are people who don't care about their neighbors and society but only care for themselves and their enjoyment. > That means dealing with city stuff, which means hearing and smelling your neighbors and maybe a good old fashioned riot every 50yr or so. Surprise, I'm living right in the inner area of Munich. The only thing causing noise here is the street with an active 5-10 minute service bus line, and that's gotten better as the buses began to be switched over to hybrid and recently electric models. When we make a bbq event or a birthday party, it's customary here to ask the neighbors if it's OK, and to offer to come around for a beer and a steak. It's called "not being an arsehole on purpose", a concept that seems to be very foreign to Americans, at least on Reddit.

ghaff 4y ago

In the US, a lot of places have restrictions on raising livestock for example which can certainly have downwind impact, for example. My town is a Massachusetts right to farm town (as many are) though I don't know the exact details of the bylaws in my town.