5 ms·

The people who most commonly hold views like this are people who live deep in the sticks. It's ideal policy for people who live in a vacuum.

itsoktocry 4y ago
[flagged]
- hospadar 4y ago
  Yeah sick burn! (not sarcastic!) I'm put in the mind of the other thread today about wrongly judging something as over-complex. What you can do on your property definitely affects nearby properties and it seems to me that we need a fairly subtle, localized, maybe complex way to deal with this. Different rules in the city/country, different rules for the industrial park/a neighborhood. I usually lean pretty "do what you want on your property" - in my town there's a lot of "we must preserve the character of our town [and prevent apartments or anywhere poor folk could possibly afford to live]" folks who seem to always be white and living in the expensive part of town. I don't think any simple "TOTAL FREEDOM" or "NO MESSY CARS" rule is every going to be very just or effective.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I live in a semi-rural farm town with a lot of small scale farming and orchards. (It's a right to farm town which means people can farm and raise animals if they're over some (low) acreage.) No one generally pays much attention to rusty farm equipment, and yes, the odd broken down car here and there. But much as I dislike "Your grass is too long and your garden too unkempt" school of HOAs, it's not hard to see why neighbors in a neat suburban development might object to someone moving in with a bunch of junked cars on their lawn.
    - ponow 4y ago
      Those people concerned about the potential for some new neighbor's junk cars can get everyone now to sign an agreement (attached to deed) preventing said. Of course there will be some holdouts, which you'll have to bribe. So it's clear that making a local law in lieu of said agreements is effectively a subsidy to those who would have had to pay this bribe.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Pretty hard for me to see that working most places. Why would the seller want a restriction on a property they're selling which can only decrease the value of the property? And if you're going to ban junk cars you probably want to ban a bunch of other things too. Congratulations! You've just created a HOA.
        yellowapple 4y ago
        > Congratulations! You've just created a HOA. I'm pretty sure that's the above commenter's point. You don't need the county to implement some blanket law (that, in my experience as a former Sacramento County resident with family still there, is very inconsistently enforced). If you want to be an insufferable prick who micromanages your neighbors' properties because you're too patently greedy to accept an entirely-hypothetical and negligible drop in your house's value (thanks, by the way, for your contribution to Sacramento's housing crisis! We all appreciate being priced out of homeownership by wannabe investors!), then do what other greedy insufferable pricks in that situation do and form an HOA.
bittercynic 4y ago
Current laws in many places do a pretty good job of accounting for that - you have a lot of leeway in your backyard, but more limits on what you can do in places visible from the street. In my neighborhood, with lot sizes around 6000-9000 square feet, this seems like a reasonable compromise.
- lrvick 4y ago
  I live in an area with similar lot sizes, and front yards are gardens, gaudy makeshift gift shops, junkyards, art displays... it is pure chaos. I would not have it any other way. Keeps the HOA types from moving in.
  - Ancapistani 4y ago
    Funnily enough, that's pretty close to the way it's seen "out in the sticks". I'm happy to live next door to a grumpy old dude with six derelict cars rotting in his back yard. It keeps my property value low, which in turn keeps my taxes low and keeps the type of people away who would otherwise have an issue with my doing metalworking in my own workshop because of the noise.
jollyllama 4y ago
The irony of this is the only real solution, in a property rights framework, if you care so deeply about the aesthetics of your neighbors is to live on a large tract of land. It's totally backwards.
- michaelt 4y ago
  I believe the traditional American solution is a "homeowners association" where some neighbourhoods strictly police the length of your lawn, other neighbourhoods don't, and you can choose when buying your home which type of neighbourhood you want. They implement this entirely through covenants and deed restrictions, with no state involvement at all, as I understand things.
  - ponow 4y ago
    Exactly. Since all member property owners voluntarily restrict their own deeds, nobody is forced to do anything. It's completely voluntary, unlike town bylaws that can oppress minorities, like those who fix cars on their own property. These bylaws are clearly subsidies, because if you'd have to bribe those who aren't disposed to agree otherwise.
  - aksss 4y ago
    That’s it. I live in middle of our city in an increasingly rare SFH-zoned neighborhood, one of three adjacent in our community council. Two have covenants, mine does not. Had a choice to buy in either, I chose the no-covenant one. We have a lady walking her two goats down the street periodically, one neighbor used to have an old square body pickup in side yard with a tree growing up through engine compartment (hood long gone). I like it. My friend across the way in other neighborhood tells me laughable stories of enforcement letters and such. To each their own. Choice is good - I like this approach better than city-wide laws. One of my key political principles is that laws should be as local as possible and the need skeptically examined.
oceanplexian 4y ago
I don’t live in the sticks and I don’t have a view like this at all.. Literally, the sights and sounds of the neighbor running a garbage dump is less reprehensible to me than dealing with a bunch of racist busybodies in an HOA. At least if you have a problem with the neighbor, you you can put on some headphones or build a privacy hedge. If you have a problem with the HOA they can fine you indefinitely because they don’t like you (with some convenient excuse like the flower beds aren’t trimmed right or the grass isn’t green enough), and then foreclose on your house, kicking you out on to the street.
- mc32 4y ago
  Today HOAs hit older people more than anyone else. So, yeah, there are busybodies who complain about noise and complain about lawns and house paint.... do you know who they tend to be, immigrant professionals who've bought their first house and use the HOA to get the old folks who are slower and now of lesser means busy keeping up with the bylaws.
lrvick 4y ago
I live in the bay area suburbs. Broken down cars in neighbors yards all around me. Idgaf. They paid for it and can use it as they please. These are homes. Property value whiners need to find a neighborhood of empty investment houses to police. I keep my property simple and tidy, but if anyone dared complain about it I would seek out the most absurd yard art possible in hopes of offending them and anyone that thinks like them out of my neighborhood.

itsoktocry 4y ago

[flagged]

hospadar 4y ago
Yeah sick burn! (not sarcastic!) I'm put in the mind of the other thread today about wrongly judging something as over-complex. What you can do on your property definitely affects nearby properties and it seems to me that we need a fairly subtle, localized, maybe complex way to deal with this. Different rules in the city/country, different rules for the industrial park/a neighborhood. I usually lean pretty "do what you want on your property" - in my town there's a lot of "we must preserve the character of our town [and prevent apartments or anywhere poor folk could possibly afford to live]" folks who seem to always be white and living in the expensive part of town. I don't think any simple "TOTAL FREEDOM" or "NO MESSY CARS" rule is every going to be very just or effective.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I live in a semi-rural farm town with a lot of small scale farming and orchards. (It's a right to farm town which means people can farm and raise animals if they're over some (low) acreage.) No one generally pays much attention to rusty farm equipment, and yes, the odd broken down car here and there. But much as I dislike "Your grass is too long and your garden too unkempt" school of HOAs, it's not hard to see why neighbors in a neat suburban development might object to someone moving in with a bunch of junked cars on their lawn.
  - ponow 4y ago
    Those people concerned about the potential for some new neighbor's junk cars can get everyone now to sign an agreement (attached to deed) preventing said. Of course there will be some holdouts, which you'll have to bribe. So it's clear that making a local law in lieu of said agreements is effectively a subsidy to those who would have had to pay this bribe.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Pretty hard for me to see that working most places. Why would the seller want a restriction on a property they're selling which can only decrease the value of the property? And if you're going to ban junk cars you probably want to ban a bunch of other things too. Congratulations! You've just created a HOA.
      - yellowapple 4y ago
        > Congratulations! You've just created a HOA. I'm pretty sure that's the above commenter's point. You don't need the county to implement some blanket law (that, in my experience as a former Sacramento County resident with family still there, is very inconsistently enforced). If you want to be an insufferable prick who micromanages your neighbors' properties because you're too patently greedy to accept an entirely-hypothetical and negligible drop in your house's value (thanks, by the way, for your contribution to Sacramento's housing crisis! We all appreciate being priced out of homeownership by wannabe investors!), then do what other greedy insufferable pricks in that situation do and form an HOA.

bittercynic 4y ago

Current laws in many places do a pretty good job of accounting for that - you have a lot of leeway in your backyard, but more limits on what you can do in places visible from the street. In my neighborhood, with lot sizes around 6000-9000 square feet, this seems like a reasonable compromise.

lrvick 4y ago
I live in an area with similar lot sizes, and front yards are gardens, gaudy makeshift gift shops, junkyards, art displays... it is pure chaos. I would not have it any other way. Keeps the HOA types from moving in.
- Ancapistani 4y ago
  Funnily enough, that's pretty close to the way it's seen "out in the sticks". I'm happy to live next door to a grumpy old dude with six derelict cars rotting in his back yard. It keeps my property value low, which in turn keeps my taxes low and keeps the type of people away who would otherwise have an issue with my doing metalworking in my own workshop because of the noise.

jollyllama 4y ago

The irony of this is the only real solution, in a property rights framework, if you care so deeply about the aesthetics of your neighbors is to live on a large tract of land. It's totally backwards.

michaelt 4y ago
I believe the traditional American solution is a "homeowners association" where some neighbourhoods strictly police the length of your lawn, other neighbourhoods don't, and you can choose when buying your home which type of neighbourhood you want. They implement this entirely through covenants and deed restrictions, with no state involvement at all, as I understand things.
- ponow 4y ago
  Exactly. Since all member property owners voluntarily restrict their own deeds, nobody is forced to do anything. It's completely voluntary, unlike town bylaws that can oppress minorities, like those who fix cars on their own property. These bylaws are clearly subsidies, because if you'd have to bribe those who aren't disposed to agree otherwise.
- aksss 4y ago
  That’s it. I live in middle of our city in an increasingly rare SFH-zoned neighborhood, one of three adjacent in our community council. Two have covenants, mine does not. Had a choice to buy in either, I chose the no-covenant one. We have a lady walking her two goats down the street periodically, one neighbor used to have an old square body pickup in side yard with a tree growing up through engine compartment (hood long gone). I like it. My friend across the way in other neighborhood tells me laughable stories of enforcement letters and such. To each their own. Choice is good - I like this approach better than city-wide laws. One of my key political principles is that laws should be as local as possible and the need skeptically examined.

oceanplexian 4y ago

I don’t live in the sticks and I don’t have a view like this at all.. Literally, the sights and sounds of the neighbor running a garbage dump is less reprehensible to me than dealing with a bunch of racist busybodies in an HOA. At least if you have a problem with the neighbor, you you can put on some headphones or build a privacy hedge. If you have a problem with the HOA they can fine you indefinitely because they don’t like you (with some convenient excuse like the flower beds aren’t trimmed right or the grass isn’t green enough), and then foreclose on your house, kicking you out on to the street.

mc32 4y ago
Today HOAs hit older people more than anyone else. So, yeah, there are busybodies who complain about noise and complain about lawns and house paint.... do you know who they tend to be, immigrant professionals who've bought their first house and use the HOA to get the old folks who are slower and now of lesser means busy keeping up with the bylaws.

lrvick 4y ago

I live in the bay area suburbs. Broken down cars in neighbors yards all around me. Idgaf. They paid for it and can use it as they please. These are homes. Property value whiners need to find a neighborhood of empty investment houses to police. I keep my property simple and tidy, but if anyone dared complain about it I would seek out the most absurd yard art possible in hopes of offending them and anyone that thinks like them out of my neighborhood.