7 ms·

At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. It's one of the most highly optimized and performant Electron apps ever created... but it's still a sh

At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. It's one of the most highly optimized and performant Electron apps ever created... but it's still a shitty Electron app. Startup time on my machine is only a hair faster than Jetbrains IDE's launching a JVM, it's ridiculous. VS Code has the market share that it has because: 1. They encouraged a huge plugin ecosystem. 2. They made it cross-platform and gave it away for free, while Sublime costs money. 3. Most importantly of all (in my cynical opinion), they went "dark mode" by default at just the right time when this was becoming a trendy new feature among devs. There are plenty of text editors that are far better than VS Code, but they either cost money or are for a single platform only. If someone came out with a free, cross-platform, attractive text editor that was a native executable and got critical mass going with a plugin ecosystem, then VS Code would fall out of fashion within a year. There's no genuine groundswell of support for Microsoft as a trendy entity with brand loyalty among young devs. The recent boomer adage "No one wants to work anymore" simply has its sad technical analogue, "No one wants to create desktop apps anymore".

goguy 4y ago
> If someone came out with a free, cross-platform, attractive text editor that was a native executable and got critical mass going with a plugin ecosystem, then VS Code would fall out of fashion within a year. Well yeah, there's the problem. This isn't an easy task, it has never been done before.
- StevePerkins 4y ago
  It's been done with Vim and Emacs, among others. Full desktop GUI versions, in addition to the original terminal-based form. It just hasn't been done RECENTLY... with an editor that is visually attractive, and uses modern keyboard conventions rather than arcane keystroke DSL's that are inaccessible for the masses. But that's just a matter of project philosophy, not technical limitations with what's doable.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    This is definitely the first time I've ever seen the adjective 'attractive' applied to either vim or emacs.
    - StevePerkins 4y ago
      If by "applied to Vim and Emacs", you mean "included in a list of theoretical differences from Vim and Emacs", then sure.
      - shadowgovt 4y ago
        > > > free, cross-platform, attractive text editor > > Well yeah, there's the problem. This isn't an easy task, it has never been done before. > It's been done with Vim and Emacs My apologies if I misunderstood how you intended the pronouns to be applied.
coffee_cup 4y ago
well there's emacs, although it probably wouldn't qualify as 'attractive'
FpUser 4y ago
>"At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. " It provides huge practical value to me as a developer. I am not fond of JavaScript being used as front end but as long as it performs decent job for particular use case I do not care. I use development tools to develop products and make money. I do not fight holy tech wars. >"Startup time on my machine is only a hair faster than Jetbrains IDE's launching a JVM, it's ridiculous." I value my development time and my development computers are very decent (desktop for example is 16 core AMD with 128GB RAM). Launching VS code on my machines is nearly instant. CLion from JetBrains is much slower (10 sec from cold start to opening my C++ project in a usable state for example) but still very acceptable. I do not restart it every minute. More like once in few days when using it. >"VS Code has the market share that it has because:" I do not care why. I am a consumer here. It is for a people who want to beat VS Code to figure out why and do better than MS. Me - I have my own problems to worry about and I just use tools that work for me. >"Most importantly of all (in my cynical opinion), they went "dark mode" by default at just the right time when this was becoming a trendy new feature among devs." I do not give a flying fuck about what is trendy for a generic developer. What is important for me in VS code along with plugin ecosystem let's me develop, lint, debug my code locally and on remote servers. As long as proper ergonomics / usability guidelines are followed I do not really care whether the mode is dark or light. >"If someone came out with a free, cross-platform, attractive text editor that was a native executable and got critical mass going with a plugin ecosystem, then VS Code would fall out of fashion within a year." And if I had a million dollars I'd be rich. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. And VS code is way more than an editor. >"No one wants to create desktop apps anymore". I actually have native desktop product and it keeps bringing me some dosh for what is a very little maintenance.
- StevePerkins 4y ago
  For someone who starts by saying they don't fight tech holy wars, this sure does read like a tech holy war. I am not insulting your personal identity by disparaging your choice in text editor. I am responding to a question of what could cause a future competitor to take the top spot away from VS Code. My answer is that VS Code has inherent challenges from being built atop an embedded web browser, and that a similar implementation based on direct native executables may be the path through which it's successor will emerge. Carry on.

goguy 4y ago

> If someone came out with a free, cross-platform, attractive text editor that was a native executable and got critical mass going with a plugin ecosystem, then VS Code would fall out of fashion within a year. Well yeah, there's the problem. This isn't an easy task, it has never been done before.

StevePerkins 4y ago
It's been done with Vim and Emacs, among others. Full desktop GUI versions, in addition to the original terminal-based form. It just hasn't been done RECENTLY... with an editor that is visually attractive, and uses modern keyboard conventions rather than arcane keystroke DSL's that are inaccessible for the masses. But that's just a matter of project philosophy, not technical limitations with what's doable.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  This is definitely the first time I've ever seen the adjective 'attractive' applied to either vim or emacs.
  - StevePerkins 4y ago
    If by "applied to Vim and Emacs", you mean "included in a list of theoretical differences from Vim and Emacs", then sure.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      > > > free, cross-platform, attractive text editor > > Well yeah, there's the problem. This isn't an easy task, it has never been done before. > It's been done with Vim and Emacs My apologies if I misunderstood how you intended the pronouns to be applied.

coffee_cup 4y ago

well there's emacs, although it probably wouldn't qualify as 'attractive'

FpUser 4y ago

>"At the end of the day, VS Code is a shitty Electron app. " It provides huge practical value to me as a developer. I am not fond of JavaScript being used as front end but as long as it performs decent job for particular use case I do not care. I use development tools to develop products and make money. I do not fight holy tech wars. >"Startup time on my machine is only a hair faster than Jetbrains IDE's launching a JVM, it's ridiculous." I value my development time and my development computers are very decent (desktop for example is 16 core AMD with 128GB RAM). Launching VS code on my machines is nearly instant. CLion from JetBrains is much slower (10 sec from cold start to opening my C++ project in a usable state for example) but still very acceptable. I do not restart it every minute. More like once in few days when using it. >"VS Code has the market share that it has because:" I do not care why. I am a consumer here. It is for a people who want to beat VS Code to figure out why and do better than MS. Me - I have my own problems to worry about and I just use tools that work for me. >"Most importantly of all (in my cynical opinion), they went "dark mode" by default at just the right time when this was becoming a trendy new feature among devs." I do not give a flying fuck about what is trendy for a generic developer. What is important for me in VS code along with plugin ecosystem let's me develop, lint, debug my code locally and on remote servers. As long as proper ergonomics / usability guidelines are followed I do not really care whether the mode is dark or light. >"If someone came out with a free, cross-platform, attractive text editor that was a native executable and got critical mass going with a plugin ecosystem, then VS Code would fall out of fashion within a year." And if I had a million dollars I'd be rich. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. And VS code is way more than an editor. >"No one wants to create desktop apps anymore". I actually have native desktop product and it keeps bringing me some dosh for what is a very little maintenance.

StevePerkins 4y ago
For someone who starts by saying they don't fight tech holy wars, this sure does read like a tech holy war. I am not insulting your personal identity by disparaging your choice in text editor. I am responding to a question of what could cause a future competitor to take the top spot away from VS Code. My answer is that VS Code has inherent challenges from being built atop an embedded web browser, and that a similar implementation based on direct native executables may be the path through which it's successor will emerge. Carry on.