8 ms·

So outside drug trade and crypto lockers what constitutes the crypto industry? The only constant I know are pump&dumps, be it in form of alt-coins, ICO or NFT.

intotheabyss 4y ago
How about the recent news from Visa where they would like to develop a smart contract wallet infrastructure (no seed phrases and account abstraction) on a layer 2 which uses zero knowledge proofs to batch transactions offchain for scalability? https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self-custodial-wallets.html https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self... Oh right, this doesn't follow the narrative that crypto is useless for everything.
- striking 4y ago
  > As part of Visa’s internal Crypto Hackathon challenge earlier this year, we took on the opportunity to explore the above scenario using a novel technique. They say in their conclusion that they're interested in this. I don't see any talk of commitment.
- yao420 4y ago
  Where are you getting that they would like to develop or even explore this further? From the link, this was taken from an internal hackathon earlier in the year before the further crypto meltdown. they didn’t even write a proof of concept. Call me when they actually trapease or do something.
- robby_w_g 4y ago
  > Oh right, this doesn't follow the narrative that crypto is useless for everything. As someone with casual knowledge of crypto, that jargon in the first paragraph sounds useless to me
- __derek__ 4y ago
  That describes an approach to solve a problem with using crypto for payments. The problem (bill pay) is already solved in the real world.
- kkielhofner 4y ago
  All you need to know is right there in the heading - "Visa Crypto Thought Leadership". You can go back years finding all kinds of research papers, press releases, broad statements from you-name-it Fortune 500 talking about some crypto project. It means absolutely nothing for these big corps to take a tiny portion out of their income-offsetting R&D departments to put a few people on moonshot/fluff/PR campaigns for papers like this. It makes them look cool, relevant, whatever and in the event it somehow goes somewhere they look like geniuses (and some exec gets a promotion). If it doesn't work out they never mention it again -OR- release a statement announcing termination of the project because of environmental concerns, etc (like Tesla).
  - jakupovic 4y ago
    Because you say so? Is that why it doesn't mean anything. At least the parent poster posted some links, you didn't and are still drawing baseless conclusions. Next time please do provide something more.
    - kkielhofner 4y ago
      Conversely, I'd love to see examples of successful blockchain/crypto projects in production in large enterprise/Fortune 500 or anywhere else. Or anything pointing to mainstream blockchain/crypto adoption outside of gambling on exchanges. Bitcoin is almost 14 years old and Ethereum is coming up on eight... For starters: https://www.maersk.com/news/articles/2022/11/29/maersk-and-ibm-to-discontinue-tradelens https://www.maersk.com/news/articles/2022/11/29/maersk-and-i... https://www.reuters.com/markets/australian-stock-exchanges-blockchain-failure-burns-market-trust-2022-12-20/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/australian-stock-exchanges-b... Nice overview and summary (including Walmart): https://www.wsj.com/articles/blockchain-fails-to-gain-traction-in-the-enterprise-11671057528 https://www.wsj.com/articles/blockchain-fails-to-gain-tracti... Tesla accepted payments, stopped, then hinted over a year ago they might resume them. Still hasn't happened: https://www.yahoo.com/now/tesla-hints-may-accept-crypto-104322040.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/tesla-hints-may-accept-crypto-1043... Another example of a splashy announcement that went nowhere: https://www.ledgerinsights.com/walgreens-walmart-mediledger-blockchain-pharmaceuticals-dscsa/ https://www.ledgerinsights.com/walgreens-walmart-mediledger-... It's getting tired to debate but I've been very active in blockchain since 2017, with two startups in the space. After more than a decade and tens of billions of dollars in spending and funding by everyone from enterprise to VC blockchain and crypto penetration and adoption is abysmal. If you want some sources and background on that conclusion I wrote this nearly a year ago and if anything usage and adoption is lower: https://blog.cryptostars.is/blockchain-the-most-poorly-adopted-platform-in-recent-history-6f5d97f7d51f https://blog.cryptostars.is/blockchain-the-most-poorly-adopt...
ilikerashers 4y ago
Art NFTs seem legit. I like this piece of digital art, I pay in crypto for the piece. It's like an open art collection database. Is it a billion dollar opportunity, don't think so but I can understand the appeal.
- tokai 4y ago
  Has ownership of any artwork actually changed hands through NFT sales? Every NTF project I have looked at are just digital receipts containing an URL.
  - nailer 4y ago
    > Every NTF project I have looked at are just digital receipts containing an URL. That is how digital art changes hands.
    - tokai 4y ago
      No, the ownership has not change by buying a NTF. Not the rights to the work nor even the ownership of a specific digital file. That's why I'm asking. Cause the whole NTF space is held up by a general misunderstanding of ownership and rights.
      - miracle2k 4y ago
        > Cause the whole NTF space is held up by a general misunderstanding of ownership and rights. It would we more correct to say that critical NFT commentary is held up by misunderstanding about what digital art collectors actually think and want. If I want to buy rights to a JPG, I go search on Shutterstock. If I want to buy a piece of digital art (in form of a limited edition receipt), I go to a gallery.
danuker 4y ago
I use it as a highly-leveraged stock market index, but: - without the risk of a margin call, and - with the ability to cash out from a broker and hold your own "shares".

intotheabyss 4y ago

How about the recent news from Visa where they would like to develop a smart contract wallet infrastructure (no seed phrases and account abstraction) on a layer 2 which uses zero knowledge proofs to batch transactions offchain for scalability? https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self-custodial-wallets.html https://usa.visa.com/solutions/crypto/auto-payments-for-self... Oh right, this doesn't follow the narrative that crypto is useless for everything.

striking 4y ago
> As part of Visa’s internal Crypto Hackathon challenge earlier this year, we took on the opportunity to explore the above scenario using a novel technique. They say in their conclusion that they're interested in this. I don't see any talk of commitment.
yao420 4y ago
Where are you getting that they would like to develop or even explore this further? From the link, this was taken from an internal hackathon earlier in the year before the further crypto meltdown. they didn’t even write a proof of concept. Call me when they actually trapease or do something.
robby_w_g 4y ago
> Oh right, this doesn't follow the narrative that crypto is useless for everything. As someone with casual knowledge of crypto, that jargon in the first paragraph sounds useless to me
__derek__ 4y ago
That describes an approach to solve a problem with using crypto for payments. The problem (bill pay) is already solved in the real world.
kkielhofner 4y ago
All you need to know is right there in the heading - "Visa Crypto Thought Leadership". You can go back years finding all kinds of research papers, press releases, broad statements from you-name-it Fortune 500 talking about some crypto project. It means absolutely nothing for these big corps to take a tiny portion out of their income-offsetting R&D departments to put a few people on moonshot/fluff/PR campaigns for papers like this. It makes them look cool, relevant, whatever and in the event it somehow goes somewhere they look like geniuses (and some exec gets a promotion). If it doesn't work out they never mention it again -OR- release a statement announcing termination of the project because of environmental concerns, etc (like Tesla).
- jakupovic 4y ago
  Because you say so? Is that why it doesn't mean anything. At least the parent poster posted some links, you didn't and are still drawing baseless conclusions. Next time please do provide something more.
  - kkielhofner 4y ago
    Conversely, I'd love to see examples of successful blockchain/crypto projects in production in large enterprise/Fortune 500 or anywhere else. Or anything pointing to mainstream blockchain/crypto adoption outside of gambling on exchanges. Bitcoin is almost 14 years old and Ethereum is coming up on eight... For starters: https://www.maersk.com/news/articles/2022/11/29/maersk-and-ibm-to-discontinue-tradelens https://www.maersk.com/news/articles/2022/11/29/maersk-and-i... https://www.reuters.com/markets/australian-stock-exchanges-blockchain-failure-burns-market-trust-2022-12-20/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/australian-stock-exchanges-b... Nice overview and summary (including Walmart): https://www.wsj.com/articles/blockchain-fails-to-gain-traction-in-the-enterprise-11671057528 https://www.wsj.com/articles/blockchain-fails-to-gain-tracti... Tesla accepted payments, stopped, then hinted over a year ago they might resume them. Still hasn't happened: https://www.yahoo.com/now/tesla-hints-may-accept-crypto-104322040.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/tesla-hints-may-accept-crypto-1043... Another example of a splashy announcement that went nowhere: https://www.ledgerinsights.com/walgreens-walmart-mediledger-blockchain-pharmaceuticals-dscsa/ https://www.ledgerinsights.com/walgreens-walmart-mediledger-... It's getting tired to debate but I've been very active in blockchain since 2017, with two startups in the space. After more than a decade and tens of billions of dollars in spending and funding by everyone from enterprise to VC blockchain and crypto penetration and adoption is abysmal. If you want some sources and background on that conclusion I wrote this nearly a year ago and if anything usage and adoption is lower: https://blog.cryptostars.is/blockchain-the-most-poorly-adopted-platform-in-recent-history-6f5d97f7d51f https://blog.cryptostars.is/blockchain-the-most-poorly-adopt...

ilikerashers 4y ago

Art NFTs seem legit. I like this piece of digital art, I pay in crypto for the piece. It's like an open art collection database. Is it a billion dollar opportunity, don't think so but I can understand the appeal.

tokai 4y ago
Has ownership of any artwork actually changed hands through NFT sales? Every NTF project I have looked at are just digital receipts containing an URL.
- nailer 4y ago
  > Every NTF project I have looked at are just digital receipts containing an URL. That is how digital art changes hands.
  - tokai 4y ago
    No, the ownership has not change by buying a NTF. Not the rights to the work nor even the ownership of a specific digital file. That's why I'm asking. Cause the whole NTF space is held up by a general misunderstanding of ownership and rights.
    - miracle2k 4y ago
      > Cause the whole NTF space is held up by a general misunderstanding of ownership and rights. It would we more correct to say that critical NFT commentary is held up by misunderstanding about what digital art collectors actually think and want. If I want to buy rights to a JPG, I go search on Shutterstock. If I want to buy a piece of digital art (in form of a limited edition receipt), I go to a gallery.

danuker 4y ago

I use it as a highly-leveraged stock market index, but: - without the risk of a margin call, and - with the ability to cash out from a broker and hold your own "shares".