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This looks really great, and nice to see both Github and Gitlab moving in this direction - ability to have IDE in the browser is great for many use-cases. Howe

This looks really great, and nice to see both Github and Gitlab moving in this direction - ability to have IDE in the browser is great for many use-cases. However, I am a bit worried that it looks like most of these companies and up using VSCode. It really needs to have a good competitor in this space, and I hope JetBrains can match that eventually with partnerships of their own.

nigamanth 4y ago
JetBrains gives products in very niche areas. WebStorm for JS, PHPStorm for PHP, RubyMine for Ruby, and GoLand for GoLang. Visual Studio Code is used by people who like to many languages, but more specifically for someone who's job is to work with JavaScript then WebStorm is much better. JetBrains could very well combine all these IDEs into one, but then again think about the amount of space and data of this new IDE.
- rzzzt 4y ago
  Have I got news for you! https://blog.jetbrains.com/fleet/2022/10/introducing-the-fleet-public-preview/#What_Fleet_is https://blog.jetbrains.com/fleet/2022/10/introducing-the-fle...
  - wolletd 4y ago
    I've seen Fleet in my JB Toolbox, but haven't touched it yet. But it is the obvious move. All the current JB IDEs are built upon the same basic IntelliJ platform, anyway. It's "only" a matter of restructuring all that to have only one IDE where you can opt-in to support specific languages and now you have something like VSCode.
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      You already have that with Idea, with a few exceptions (C/C++, and possibly C#). You can install the Python plugin & friends -> PyCharm You can install the Go plugin -> Goland Etc
      - notpushkin 4y ago
        I'm not sure why, but nobody I know uses this setup – everybody has 2–3 separate IDEs (one for backend, one for frontend etc). The initial reason behind having separate IDEs for every language, or so I was told, was using different keybindings. This way, XCode users could easily switch to AppCode, Visual Studio users – to Rider etc. – without the need to re-learn anything. (This is the reason I still have Atom keybindings in my Codium setup.) But why would anyone want to use different IDEs with different keybindings is a complete mystery to me.
        ilikehurdles 4y ago
        That’s absurd! I’ve used the same IDEA Ultimate instance for all languages I touch. Often 3 in the same project. Haven’t seen the point of having separate IDEA/Webstorm/Pycharm instances when one delivers all the functionality of the others. I’m looking forward to Fleet, watching it closely. But it still has some kinks preventing me from adopting it. Once they polish up the elixir-ls integration I’ll give it a serious shot.
        abhijat 4y ago
        I may be mistaken but AFAIK plugins are not always at feature parity with the full jetbrains IDEs. For example the rust plugin in intellij did not support debugging but the one in CLion did (I think this is fixed now). The python plugin in intellij was a little inferior to Pycharm for Django (pycharm had deeper support for the django ORM) and so on.
        vladvasiliu 4y ago
        I think the reason for the difference between clion and idea for the rust plugin is that clion seems somehow different "on a lower level". It still has support for profiling and valgrind, which Idea lacks [0]. Regarding Django, do you have some examples? I'm admittedly not a hardcore Django user, but I haven't seen any difference between the two. [0] https://github.com/intellij-rust/intellij-rust#compatible-ides https://github.com/intellij-rust/intellij-rust#compatible-id...
        4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- chronofar 4y ago
  Aside from the newly introduced Fleet the other commenter pointed out, Jetbrains' IDEA Ultimate can include all the functionality of all the individual niche products (via plugins), so you could just use a single Jetbrains IDE for most any language/flow you choose. I personally kind of like to keep them separate so I can keep different envs configured the way I most often use them, but you could just use the single IDE for all.
  - brabel 4y ago
    Can confirm... IDEA Ultimate (and Community to a lesser extent) lets me write code in Java, Groovy, Kotlin (and with slightly fewer features, but still really good support), Go, Rust, JavaScript, TypeScript, and of course, HTML/CSS... probably more but those are what I normally use. VS Code is getting support for all the newer languages though... similar to how it used to be before with Eclipse (for those who remember the multitude of Eclipse-based IDEs for niche uses in the 2000's) and emacs (which still gets support for most esoteric langs, even if half baked, pretty quickly)... for example, I can use Zig in both emacs and VS Code, but not IntelliJ (I think they are writing one , but it was really unusable when I last checked it out). And stuff like Julia, Common Lisp.... I tend to go to emacs for those... but apparently supporting VS Code is high priority for even these languages nowadays.
    - jmnicolas 4y ago
      I wonder how do you manage so my languages without getting confused?
      - brabel 4y ago
        I don't use them all at the same time :D sometimes I might go for months without touching some of them but I always find an excuse to go back so I don't lose the knowledge. No particular reason to try to keep up with many languages, I just enjoy it.
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    I thought it was weird when Jetbrains started to split up their product into language-specific products, but given how many people say they use WebStorm or an other niche product, and who say they use multiple, I can't blame Jetbrains - I think that in hindsight it was a great business move. An expensive "I can do everything" product has a higher barrier to entry than a specialized product. Personally I've been using Ultimate on and off over the years, since I've never really stuck to any one language; at my previous job it was a mix of PHP / JS (Dojo), Go, Typescript, and sometimes (reading) C code which didn't quite work right in Ultimate. VS Code can do all that too, but only intellij was able to actually help me with stuff - things like set the version of PHP to 5.2 so it warns me if I tried to use the PHP 5.3 array shorthand. (I did not choose PHP by the way and the project was to replace it)
- bastawhiz 4y ago
  > Visual Studio Code is used by people who like to many languages I don't like these language. I'm forced to write them. I didn't ask for terraform, typescript, CSS, HTML, yaml, xml, JSON, and everything else. > for someone who's job is to work with JavaScript then WebStorm is much better It's never been my experience that a full IDE is better for dynamic interpreted languages. Maybe if you're used to that from writing C# or Java it's nice, but I'll sooner take vi. But like you said, thanks to lots of people that came before me, I'm not just writing one language, I'm writing many. Right now, I have tabs open with eight different languages. I need something that's suitable at everything, not just one language.
  - lallysingh 4y ago
    Try pycharm. It does fantastic error checking that you'd normally need to test the code for. For example, it will infer types for variables and then highlight lines that will cause problems at runtime. It's saved me days of testing the first week I used it.
    - bastawhiz 4y ago
      I already use mypy with vscode for Python. The type checker is the same one that runs in CI.
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        Sorry, what happened to `vi`?
        yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        Nothing? It's a good text editor, but it's not an IDE
        bastawhiz 4y ago
        I use it when it makes sense. My point is that on the spectrum of IDE <--> text editor, I'd much rather take the text editor than the IDE. The performance and ease of use of a simple text editor vastly dominates whatever convenience(s) the IDE claims to provide. Vscode is my usually my daily driver, as it's fast, has effective built-in refactoring tools, and has a decent plugin ecosystem.
morelisp 4y ago
JetBrains seems to be forging ahead with their own Space project and not trying to partner too closely with any existing forge. They seem to understand "IDE-in-browser" undermines their fundamental market position; they need to make people not need the browser in the first place, to retain it.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  > They seem to understand "IDE-in-browser" undermines their fundamental market position How so? They've recently rolled out the "gateway" product, which is basically a remote IDE. Sure, you still connect to that with a local one, but the local one doesn't do that much. Why not move it to a browser? The remote one does all the things people love about their IDEs. And if people don't care, they're probably not using their products anyway. The only issue I'd have with a browser, is that I usually use Vim keybindings, which I've never seen well implemented. My favorite being the window intercepting ^W.
  - zamalek 4y ago
    There's actually a few products. Gateway is a remote IDE in the browser, it's a rewrite of their front-end (Spring I think?) to marshal the UI over HTTP. Remote is similar to VSCode. The IDE is split into a front-end and a backend: the UI stuff happens locally, and does RPC to the backend for file access, terminal, language server, what-not.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - NoahKAndrews 4y ago
      Gateway is a desktop app. https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/ https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/
- canadianfella 4y ago
throwawayJA1820 4y ago
Replit should create a whitelist version of their product and offer it as web editor
- shortgiraffes 4y ago
  Took me a couple seconds to think of it, but the word you're looking for is 'white label'.
mikro2nd 4y ago
Interestingly, Netbeans (though strongly Java focussed at the time) once had a fantastic collaborative coding plugin at one time, based on XMPP. It got killed because Sun wanted to foist their own "via Sun servers" thing on everybody. Needless to say, both solutions died on the vine. How sad. Browser-based BS... I'm never going to buy it. Personal prediction (contact me if you're willing to put Swiss money on it; I am!) - in 5 to 8 years' time the pendulum will be swinging back to device-/locally-hosted apps because of $unforeseen-issues. And fashion.
- endtime 4y ago
  I don't know what will happen to it as a public consumer product, but Google's internal browser-based hosted VS Code (Cider V) is great.
andrew_ 4y ago
The way that VS Code is spreading, and the stranglehold Microsoft has on development and direction of the product, give me very strong IE4/5/6 vibes. I really hope some of the open source alternatives that aren't corporation-controlled gain traction over the next year.
- mminer237 4y ago
  Unlike IE, VS Code is open source though. If Microsoft does some terrible thing with VS Code, the community can just switch to VSCodium: https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/
  - djbusby 4y ago
    Can? The time to support FOSS is now.
    - thiht 4y ago
      Which Visual Studio Code is.
      - pionar 4y ago
        It's not. VSC is a packaged version of the open-source code with proprietary bits added. Integration with the plugin marketplace, telemetry, etc. VSCodium does not have that. In addition, a lot of the good language plugins are proprietary, like PyLance and the C# plugin.
        joshmanders 4y ago
        You're just being pedantic now. VSCodium exists because VSCode is FOSS. Your complaint is with the binary that Microsoft ships, not with the codebase.
        morelisp 4y ago
        Sounds to me like they've got sufficient fanboy mindshare to move fully into "extinguish" soon!
nabaraz 4y ago
For what's its worth, I've not moved away from Sublime Text. I hope it stays competitive for the foreseeable future.

nigamanth 4y ago

JetBrains gives products in very niche areas. WebStorm for JS, PHPStorm for PHP, RubyMine for Ruby, and GoLand for GoLang. Visual Studio Code is used by people who like to many languages, but more specifically for someone who's job is to work with JavaScript then WebStorm is much better. JetBrains could very well combine all these IDEs into one, but then again think about the amount of space and data of this new IDE.

rzzzt 4y ago
Have I got news for you! https://blog.jetbrains.com/fleet/2022/10/introducing-the-fleet-public-preview/#What_Fleet_is https://blog.jetbrains.com/fleet/2022/10/introducing-the-fle...
- wolletd 4y ago
  I've seen Fleet in my JB Toolbox, but haven't touched it yet. But it is the obvious move. All the current JB IDEs are built upon the same basic IntelliJ platform, anyway. It's "only" a matter of restructuring all that to have only one IDE where you can opt-in to support specific languages and now you have something like VSCode.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    You already have that with Idea, with a few exceptions (C/C++, and possibly C#). You can install the Python plugin & friends -> PyCharm You can install the Go plugin -> Goland Etc
    - notpushkin 4y ago
      I'm not sure why, but nobody I know uses this setup – everybody has 2–3 separate IDEs (one for backend, one for frontend etc). The initial reason behind having separate IDEs for every language, or so I was told, was using different keybindings. This way, XCode users could easily switch to AppCode, Visual Studio users – to Rider etc. – without the need to re-learn anything. (This is the reason I still have Atom keybindings in my Codium setup.) But why would anyone want to use different IDEs with different keybindings is a complete mystery to me.
      - ilikehurdles 4y ago
        That’s absurd! I’ve used the same IDEA Ultimate instance for all languages I touch. Often 3 in the same project. Haven’t seen the point of having separate IDEA/Webstorm/Pycharm instances when one delivers all the functionality of the others. I’m looking forward to Fleet, watching it closely. But it still has some kinks preventing me from adopting it. Once they polish up the elixir-ls integration I’ll give it a serious shot.
      - abhijat 4y ago
        I may be mistaken but AFAIK plugins are not always at feature parity with the full jetbrains IDEs. For example the rust plugin in intellij did not support debugging but the one in CLion did (I think this is fixed now). The python plugin in intellij was a little inferior to Pycharm for Django (pycharm had deeper support for the django ORM) and so on.
        vladvasiliu 4y ago
        I think the reason for the difference between clion and idea for the rust plugin is that clion seems somehow different "on a lower level". It still has support for profiling and valgrind, which Idea lacks [0]. Regarding Django, do you have some examples? I'm admittedly not a hardcore Django user, but I haven't seen any difference between the two. [0] https://github.com/intellij-rust/intellij-rust#compatible-ides https://github.com/intellij-rust/intellij-rust#compatible-id...
        4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
chronofar 4y ago
Aside from the newly introduced Fleet the other commenter pointed out, Jetbrains' IDEA Ultimate can include all the functionality of all the individual niche products (via plugins), so you could just use a single Jetbrains IDE for most any language/flow you choose. I personally kind of like to keep them separate so I can keep different envs configured the way I most often use them, but you could just use the single IDE for all.
- brabel 4y ago
  Can confirm... IDEA Ultimate (and Community to a lesser extent) lets me write code in Java, Groovy, Kotlin (and with slightly fewer features, but still really good support), Go, Rust, JavaScript, TypeScript, and of course, HTML/CSS... probably more but those are what I normally use. VS Code is getting support for all the newer languages though... similar to how it used to be before with Eclipse (for those who remember the multitude of Eclipse-based IDEs for niche uses in the 2000's) and emacs (which still gets support for most esoteric langs, even if half baked, pretty quickly)... for example, I can use Zig in both emacs and VS Code, but not IntelliJ (I think they are writing one , but it was really unusable when I last checked it out). And stuff like Julia, Common Lisp.... I tend to go to emacs for those... but apparently supporting VS Code is high priority for even these languages nowadays.
  - jmnicolas 4y ago
    I wonder how do you manage so my languages without getting confused?
    - brabel 4y ago
      I don't use them all at the same time :D sometimes I might go for months without touching some of them but I always find an excuse to go back so I don't lose the knowledge. No particular reason to try to keep up with many languages, I just enjoy it.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  I thought it was weird when Jetbrains started to split up their product into language-specific products, but given how many people say they use WebStorm or an other niche product, and who say they use multiple, I can't blame Jetbrains - I think that in hindsight it was a great business move. An expensive "I can do everything" product has a higher barrier to entry than a specialized product. Personally I've been using Ultimate on and off over the years, since I've never really stuck to any one language; at my previous job it was a mix of PHP / JS (Dojo), Go, Typescript, and sometimes (reading) C code which didn't quite work right in Ultimate. VS Code can do all that too, but only intellij was able to actually help me with stuff - things like set the version of PHP to 5.2 so it warns me if I tried to use the PHP 5.3 array shorthand. (I did not choose PHP by the way and the project was to replace it)
bastawhiz 4y ago
> Visual Studio Code is used by people who like to many languages I don't like these language. I'm forced to write them. I didn't ask for terraform, typescript, CSS, HTML, yaml, xml, JSON, and everything else. > for someone who's job is to work with JavaScript then WebStorm is much better It's never been my experience that a full IDE is better for dynamic interpreted languages. Maybe if you're used to that from writing C# or Java it's nice, but I'll sooner take vi. But like you said, thanks to lots of people that came before me, I'm not just writing one language, I'm writing many. Right now, I have tabs open with eight different languages. I need something that's suitable at everything, not just one language.
- lallysingh 4y ago
  Try pycharm. It does fantastic error checking that you'd normally need to test the code for. For example, it will infer types for variables and then highlight lines that will cause problems at runtime. It's saved me days of testing the first week I used it.
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    I already use mypy with vscode for Python. The type checker is the same one that runs in CI.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      Sorry, what happened to `vi`?
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        Nothing? It's a good text editor, but it's not an IDE
      - bastawhiz 4y ago
        I use it when it makes sense. My point is that on the spectrum of IDE <--> text editor, I'd much rather take the text editor than the IDE. The performance and ease of use of a simple text editor vastly dominates whatever convenience(s) the IDE claims to provide. Vscode is my usually my daily driver, as it's fast, has effective built-in refactoring tools, and has a decent plugin ecosystem.

morelisp 4y ago

JetBrains seems to be forging ahead with their own Space project and not trying to partner too closely with any existing forge. They seem to understand "IDE-in-browser" undermines their fundamental market position; they need to make people not need the browser in the first place, to retain it.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
> They seem to understand "IDE-in-browser" undermines their fundamental market position How so? They've recently rolled out the "gateway" product, which is basically a remote IDE. Sure, you still connect to that with a local one, but the local one doesn't do that much. Why not move it to a browser? The remote one does all the things people love about their IDEs. And if people don't care, they're probably not using their products anyway. The only issue I'd have with a browser, is that I usually use Vim keybindings, which I've never seen well implemented. My favorite being the window intercepting ^W.
- zamalek 4y ago
  There's actually a few products. Gateway is a remote IDE in the browser, it's a rewrite of their front-end (Spring I think?) to marshal the UI over HTTP. Remote is similar to VSCode. The IDE is split into a front-end and a backend: the UI stuff happens locally, and does RPC to the backend for file access, terminal, language server, what-not.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - NoahKAndrews 4y ago
    Gateway is a desktop app. https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/ https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/
canadianfella 4y ago

throwawayJA1820 4y ago

Replit should create a whitelist version of their product and offer it as web editor

shortgiraffes 4y ago
Took me a couple seconds to think of it, but the word you're looking for is 'white label'.

mikro2nd 4y ago

Interestingly, Netbeans (though strongly Java focussed at the time) once had a fantastic collaborative coding plugin at one time, based on XMPP. It got killed because Sun wanted to foist their own "via Sun servers" thing on everybody. Needless to say, both solutions died on the vine. How sad. Browser-based BS... I'm never going to buy it. Personal prediction (contact me if you're willing to put Swiss money on it; I am!) - in 5 to 8 years' time the pendulum will be swinging back to device-/locally-hosted apps because of $unforeseen-issues. And fashion.

endtime 4y ago
I don't know what will happen to it as a public consumer product, but Google's internal browser-based hosted VS Code (Cider V) is great.

andrew_ 4y ago

The way that VS Code is spreading, and the stranglehold Microsoft has on development and direction of the product, give me very strong IE4/5/6 vibes. I really hope some of the open source alternatives that aren't corporation-controlled gain traction over the next year.

mminer237 4y ago
Unlike IE, VS Code is open source though. If Microsoft does some terrible thing with VS Code, the community can just switch to VSCodium: https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/
- djbusby 4y ago
  Can? The time to support FOSS is now.
  - thiht 4y ago
    Which Visual Studio Code is.
    - pionar 4y ago
      It's not. VSC is a packaged version of the open-source code with proprietary bits added. Integration with the plugin marketplace, telemetry, etc. VSCodium does not have that. In addition, a lot of the good language plugins are proprietary, like PyLance and the C# plugin.
      - joshmanders 4y ago
        You're just being pedantic now. VSCodium exists because VSCode is FOSS. Your complaint is with the binary that Microsoft ships, not with the codebase.
        morelisp 4y ago
        Sounds to me like they've got sufficient fanboy mindshare to move fully into "extinguish" soon!

nabaraz 4y ago

For what's its worth, I've not moved away from Sublime Text. I hope it stays competitive for the foreseeable future.