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Older iPhones bricked for being too outdated, locking users from data [video]

121 points by Cloudef 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ddalex 4y ago
Why are you not buying a new phone like a good consumer?!? /s
- iguana_lawyer 4y ago
  This is a bizarre comment. Apple supports their hardware for a very long time and builds everything to last. Show me an android phone that still works well after eight years of daily use. Most fall apart within two.
  - Cloudef 4y ago
    Still rocking my MI A1 after 5 years, and allowed to actually replace its parts too without signing into proprietary repair program which requires apple to remotely activate your new installed parts. I hate when useful things that work just fine are artificially reduced to e-waste. Now if we could go back to the nokia times, when swappable batteries were thing and spare parts were actually sold by the manufacturers.
    - tpxl 4y ago
      Still have my original Galaxy Note 1. Original battery, screen recently replaced with a third party one for cheap. Calls and texts work fine, navigation is OK, I don't care about the rest.
    - BozeWolf 4y ago
      Do you still get software updates from the manufacturer? Also, you do understand that you are probably the exception to the rule that in general iphones seem to get support longer than android phones. In my opinion, in general, unsafe (outdated) devices should not be used as they are a huge attack vector because there are so many of them.
      - szdva 4y ago
        Despite being an Android One phone, it was released with Android 7 but got stuck in Android 9 (Android 13 being the latest version). That makes it two years of updates. Yeah, the Android ecosystem is pathetic like that.
      - Cloudef 4y ago
        Last update was 2020, but I don't really care about the updates nor "security", which is just blanket term for lockdown, aka security for the vendor, not your security. Android allows me to do things and does not treat me like a criminal in addition to feeling like I actually own the device.
        bootsmann 4y ago
        I don't know if I would keep some of my most private information on a device that has not had security upgrades for two years. Especially when exploits like [CVE-2022-20465](https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2022-20465 https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2022-2046...) which bypass the lockscreen exist.
        Cloudef 4y ago
        I wouldn't keep anything important on a phone no matter what phone it is. And even then if I did, I would use separate encryption app for storing such data.
  - throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
    >Most fall apart within two. lol half the people in the third world use their phones for 5+ years
    - jquery 4y ago
      And many of them are walking around 100% compromised from a security perspective.
      - throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
        even if that was true, they'd rather have a vulnerable device than a brick. just like they'd rather not have their 5+ year old car seized and their 5+ year old house demolished for their own safety
  - Tade0 4y ago
    My sister's Galaxy S3 Mini is alive and well. Just needed a battery replacement. Same goes for my SO's Galaxy Ace 4 Style, which she left lying there for an iPhone SE, but might return to the Samsung because the iPhone, while being a great device overall, will now require a battery replacement procedure because it wasn't designed for doing that at home and the battery is very much dead. My Galaxy S8 is humming along nicely even though I subject it to a lot of environmental stress daily by e.g. showering with it in hand. Bottom line is iPhones aren't that special in this regard anymore.
    - _Algernon_ 4y ago
      The main issue on Android for longevity isn't hardware. It's that you rarely get software updates - or even security updates - beyond a couple of years. An 8 year old device may be completely usable based on the hardware, but still not be able to run or download new apps, all while being a walking botnet.
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    You'll have to use my imagination, since I don't believe there's a way to attach a photo, but pretend I'm showing you the Android phone that's currently in my pocket.
  - jve 4y ago
    > Most fall apart within two. Maybe some budged non-flagship Android. You ought to compare iPhones to flagship Android devices. Because iPhone is a flagship device. Don't spread misinformation.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Why has the good consumer skipped SIX major OS updates?
  - mvanbaak 4y ago
    to create a youtube vid with a clickbait title so they can earn more on ad impressions
- odiroot 4y ago
  I'm sorry, too busy eating the bugs.
planb 4y ago
Is there any source for this that is not a YouTube video? Last week I tried to unlock my old iPhone SE to use it as a data logger, but I forgot the passcode. At least I thought so because the device wouldn’t unlock. Am I affected by this or did I just really forget the code?
- easton 4y ago
  You probably did forget the code. If you were affected by this issue, the phone would’ve been stuck in the first time setup screen.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
implements 4y ago
Seems to an issue for older phones running pre iOS 10 (according to the BTL comments) due to a change in the phone recognition / activation protocol.
szdva 4y ago
Okay, so upgrade? Why are you still using iOS 9 on an iPhone 6s which supports iOS 15?
- Shank 4y ago
  The crux of Hugh Jeffreys' argument is that sometimes, upgrading reduces the performance of the device. Therefore, a lot of people want to keep old devices on old versions of iOS, so as to maintain the "out-of-box experience" / performance. I don't know that I have an opinion on this, but that's what Hugh Jeffreys' argument seems to be.
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    iOS 15 works just fine on the 6s. Can’t say it’s noticeably slower.
  - tuetuopay 4y ago
    Better poor performance than a brick. And iOS 15 performance on the 6s is far from abysmal. Sure you don't have the out of the box experience. But you have the 2022 experience.
    - paganel 4y ago
      I don’t care about the “2022 experience”, whatever that is supposed to mean, I care about having an experience as close as possible to the phone that I purchased (I think I bought this last one in 2018 or so).
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    This is mostly superstition and anecdotes with no real data to back it up. Yes, a fresh iOS install sometimes causes some slowdown for a day or two maybe when the local-only ML models go through your local-only data and recalculate the new stuff it now knows how to do in the background. After that it's going to be as smooth as it ever was.
    - 4y ago
the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
I saw this a while ago and I'm confused about this issue. It seems like you can upgrade to a newer iOS version and activate just fine. Is there a specific reason this is not option?
- MereInterest 4y ago
  Because in the past, Apple has marked iOS versions as compatible even where the hardware performance isn’t sufficient for reasonable use. Since Apple also doesn’t support downgrades of iOS versions, users are reasonably wary at taking Apple at their word for compatibility.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    Just once, for one device. It was one of the iPad Airs I think. It had a way too high resolution display for the CPU and really suffered from OS updates. It's not a problem anymore since most Apple devices are ridiculously overpowered and they have separated iOS from iPadOS.
    - rekoil 4y ago
      Many people mistakenly attribute what the OS does when it detects a degraded battery as an example of this, since it appeared in an update and wasn't properly explained (and no opt-out was provided initially). It's hard to fault them honestly, most people don't understand how degraded batteries affect their device, they think it's just about how many hours the device lasts on a full charge, when in reality it's much more complex.
    - MereInterest 4y ago
      Nope, it was the main iPhone line. 2017: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2017/12/20/apple-iphone-kill-switch-ios-degrade-cripple-performance-battery/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2017/12/20/apple-iph... I’m also not sure why “just once” is supposed to buy back trust. They still don’t allow for iOS downgrades, so the underlying issue hasn’t been addressed.
incrudible 4y ago
The way I see it, the complaint here is that Apple does not say why they do this (regulatory violations in outdated iOS versions). As long as there is an upgrade path or some alternative for data retrieval, I do not see the issue, but this rather clickbaity video does not make this clear.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  This YouTuber thrives on anti Apple clickbait.
- my123 4y ago
  The upgrade path in this scenario is clicking the Upgrade option when having the phone plugged in to iTunes or Finder. This however needs a bigger computer to do it.
grishka 4y ago
It should be illegal for a general-purpose device like a smartphone to be remotely controllable like this by anyone but its owner.
- Arnt 4y ago
  What's your opinion about the Samsung Galaxy Note 7? That's the one whose battery tended to explode, maybe ten years ago. Samsung offered to replace them, and eventually bricked the remaining devices.
  - grishka 4y ago
    It's still Android though, you can still downgrade the system and/or root it. Android, unlike iOS, is not tied to any servers whatsoever.
    - Arnt 4y ago
      As I heard the story, Samsung bricked them. No downgrade possible, no root, no use, no explosion.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      Let’s add for completeness’s sake that most Androids will literally wipe their proprietary firmware for e.g. their cameras, giving you a very expensive device that takes much shittier photos then it is capable of. They are not at all like laptops where you can freely change the OS, the only devices like that are Pixels.
- dTal 4y ago
  That would merely incentivize locking down general purpose devices until they can no longer be considered general purpose. Perhaps by restricting the set of programs that can be installed. Probably you'd end up with some kind of "app store" that... wait...
  - grishka 4y ago
    It is a general-purpose device if its official SDK is publicly available and does not require an NDA.
elzbardico 4y ago
The iphone 6 supports ios 15. This is a problem for people that refuse to update their devices from ios 9. It is all related to changes in the activation protocol, which was utterly broken and allowed all kinds of iCloud bypasses for activation; update it to a newer version, and it uses the newer protocol and no problem at all. This is a nine-year-old device that can still be updated.
- loloquwowndueo 4y ago
  “Refuse to update” ? If the device otherwise works well why should one do this?
  - whynaut 4y ago
    > utterly broken
  - sbuk 4y ago
    In this case, to prevent oneself being locked out of one’s device.
  - mvanbaak 4y ago
    security updates are important. and on a mobile device that's connected it's really important.
    - mihaaly 4y ago
      it was so good if it was security update only and not f-ing up existing functionality - on top of poor security release fixes - and forcing on the user unrelated and never needed other things as well. this 'security' rasoning for update thing is a big fat lie! do security updates only then!
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - elzbardico 4y ago
mherrmann 4y ago
I had an iPad 1 a long time ago. After just a few years, it stopped receiving updates. This meant that I could no longer install or update most apps. And then the apps broke as well because they needed updates to continue to function. The hardware was still perfectly fine. But the device became essentially bricked after a few years. Terrible experience.
- mherrmann 4y ago
  Forgot to add that I also made the mistake of uninstalling Vlc at some point. It was still working. But then I couldn't get it back because the app store didn't let me install it any more.
  - galad87 4y ago
    Developers can decide to allow the download of the latest compatible version for old devices, but it seems a lot decides to against it. So unless you manually backup the apps, it's really a pain to restore things on old devices.
  - latexr 4y ago
    Don’t try to install it from its store page, but from your “Purchased” list on your account. That should get the latest version you had access to. I haven’t tried that in years, so something may have changed.
  - alamortsubite 4y ago
    I made this same mistake with an old iPod. It would have been nice if Apple had at least warned me on uninstall before slapping me in the face. That was the last day I used that device.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    I've received an old iPad to play around with running iOS 9. Safari is essentially crippled by a lack of software updates but old versions of the apps can still be installed. Because of Apple's great software design, you need an old version of iTunes. From there, you can add apps to your account. Then, on the iPad, you can install "purchased" apps. The store itself is completely useless as nothing will install, but the "purchased" page will let you download the last version that works on the device.
Tepix 4y ago
So if i wipe my old pre iOS 15 phone and sell it to someone else, they cannot activate it? As a user who buys such an old phone i would expect grave security holes. But not being able to use the phone at all is harsh. Planned obsolescence?
rcarr 4y ago
Yesterday I tried to help out my motorcycle instructor (and owner of the entire motorcycle school) whose business Facebook page had disappeared (the business account was still there). I downloaded the logs for the account and they were blank too, it was like the page never existed. I have no idea if: - He or an employee deleted it accidentally - Facebook deleted it. - His account was hacked and it was deleted He had no form of 2FA switched on so I tried to help him set it up in case it was the latter in order to prevent it happening again. My first port of call was to try and use the built in Apple passwords in the iPhone settings that now allows you to scan QR codes and set keys. To my surprise, the setting was not there. Why? Because he was using an iPhone that cannot update past iOS 12. It got worse. Rather than dotting out the passwords and requiring you to click on them to reveal them, the passwords were just sitting there in plain sight for all to see. If I had been a black hat I would have been having a field day. After failing with the built in Apple option I tried to download a third party authenticator app but there were no applications in the App Store that supported iOS 12. In the end I had to settle for SMS authentication. I asked him why he was still using such an old iPhone (he could clearly afford to update to a newer model) and explained the security risks of using such an old device. His response was that he didn’t like phones and didn’t want to spend any money on another one. I get the scepticism around Apple doing this but I’m not entirely sure it’s a bad thing.
- prepend 4y ago
  > It got worse. Rather than dotting out the passwords and requiring you to click on them to reveal them, the passwords were just sitting there in plain sight for all to see. Isn’t this only once you authenticate with password or biometrics? The passwords are shown in clear text so they can be cut and pasted for use. I don’t think this is a risk as it means someone gave you access to the device password in the first place.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    I believe so yes. But it is still better practice to have them dotted out until clicked on to minimise the chances of other people seeing them.
rswail 4y ago
I was going to read through the comments, but, as per usual, there is the "Android is better 'cos I can unlock it and do what I want". Yes, this is true. Don't buy an iPhone/iPad/Mac. I've been hacking for 30+ years, I like that Apple has locked down the phones and the Mac is not locked other than Apple locking their OS. It doesn't stop me installing Macports and then the endless array of FOSS that I want. General purpose computing is slowly evolving, like every other technology before it, to separation of the creation of code from the use of code. Computers and phones are a tool for most people, the act of coding and/or going outside the provided ecosystem is something that the majority of people, for the majority of the time, don't want or, in a lot of cases, need. Most people don't have shortwave radios anymore, neither are they interested in amateur radio etc. Government regulations have "locked down" the radio ecosystem but maintained the capabilities for those that want to explore radio "hacking". Computing is going the same way. If you want to hack your own environment, there are perfectly cromulent alternatives. Android and AOSP for phones and tablets, Linux and the *BSDs for general computing.
- ihatepython 4y ago
  I cannot take seriously a comment that uses the word 'cromulent' for no particular reason. Please, take the time to embiggen your vocabulary.
lelag 4y ago
I think it should be mandatory for tech companies with some revenue threshold to open-source the necessary bits (bootloader, driver spec, etc) required for the community to port Linux or other open-sources OS on devices they intent on stop supporting. Maybe 20 years ago and before, devices were made obsolete so fast that it would not have made sense to try to extend the live of hardware but it's no longer the case. Old phones and tablets are perfectly fine for a lot of use cases, they took a lot of natural resources to build and they can only collect dust in drawers or fill landfills now. Finally we are realising that the Earth has finite resources and we should try to make the most of what we have. Increasing the life of existing IT devices by not withholding informations would be a good first step. The nice part about such a law, is that companies that want to keep their stuff private would have a way to do so: just keep supporting the devices. If it's not worth supporting, you should not be allowed to keep the IP closed if that prevent the devices from being useful.
- rekoil 4y ago
  I was hoping that the new gatekeeper laws in the EU would go this far, but they don't. I'm still very happy about them, but I really was hoping they would force Apple to give customers the ability to unlock the bootloader of iOS devices.
  - notwokeno 4y ago
    It sounds like they're unlikely to actually change anything. Apple is still going to require reviewing all of the apps you'll just get to choose different GUIs for downloading them.
    - Spivak 4y ago
      Yep, it’s actually kinda disappointing how seemingly nobody saw this coming and years of legal effort went into a law that will have very little practical effect except making companies shuffle things around and then continue business as usual.
    - rekoil 4y ago
bilsbie 4y ago
I still don’t understand why I lost all my music on my last phone upgrade. I had my entire phone backing up to iCloud. Logged in on the new phone and it downloaded all my data. But music is gone!
tantalor 4y ago
These devices are not "bricked"! That is misinformation intended to cast Apple as a villain and these users as poor innocents. In reality, these devices still work fine, and these users are trying to run unsupported software on them. My partner prefers the old iPhone SE and she has no problem running the latest version of iOS on it.
qwerty456127 4y ago
I'd say iPhone 6S isn't even old. I was expecting this to be about iPhone 2 or something like that. I even planned to buy an iPhone 4 because I like its design.
- kkielhofner 4y ago
  > iPhone 4 I don't know what your plans are for this iPhone 4 but it doesn't support 4G and won't work most places (like all of the US).
- Gigachad 4y ago
  It still works. The user just has to update it.
doe88 4y ago
One of the worst thing on old systems not supported anymore is the lack of updates of SSL certificates, nowdays you can't do nothing without valid certificates, everything stops working.
mindcrash 4y ago
I still have a working iPhone 4 which I use together with a alarm clock with dock as a expanded alarm clock and I do not have any issues at all. So maybe the trick is when you do not use your old iPhone as daily driver anymore pull out the SIM card and everything seems to be OK (would not recommend to use old iPhones in the wild anyway, due to severe security risks)

121 points by Cloudef 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ddalex 4y ago

Why are you not buying a new phone like a good consumer?!? /s

iguana_lawyer 4y ago
This is a bizarre comment. Apple supports their hardware for a very long time and builds everything to last. Show me an android phone that still works well after eight years of daily use. Most fall apart within two.
- Cloudef 4y ago
  Still rocking my MI A1 after 5 years, and allowed to actually replace its parts too without signing into proprietary repair program which requires apple to remotely activate your new installed parts. I hate when useful things that work just fine are artificially reduced to e-waste. Now if we could go back to the nokia times, when swappable batteries were thing and spare parts were actually sold by the manufacturers.
  - tpxl 4y ago
    Still have my original Galaxy Note 1. Original battery, screen recently replaced with a third party one for cheap. Calls and texts work fine, navigation is OK, I don't care about the rest.
  - BozeWolf 4y ago
    Do you still get software updates from the manufacturer? Also, you do understand that you are probably the exception to the rule that in general iphones seem to get support longer than android phones. In my opinion, in general, unsafe (outdated) devices should not be used as they are a huge attack vector because there are so many of them.
    - szdva 4y ago
      Despite being an Android One phone, it was released with Android 7 but got stuck in Android 9 (Android 13 being the latest version). That makes it two years of updates. Yeah, the Android ecosystem is pathetic like that.
    - Cloudef 4y ago
      Last update was 2020, but I don't really care about the updates nor "security", which is just blanket term for lockdown, aka security for the vendor, not your security. Android allows me to do things and does not treat me like a criminal in addition to feeling like I actually own the device.
      - bootsmann 4y ago
        I don't know if I would keep some of my most private information on a device that has not had security upgrades for two years. Especially when exploits like [CVE-2022-20465](https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2022-20465 https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2022-2046...) which bypass the lockscreen exist.
        Cloudef 4y ago
        I wouldn't keep anything important on a phone no matter what phone it is. And even then if I did, I would use separate encryption app for storing such data.
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  >Most fall apart within two. lol half the people in the third world use their phones for 5+ years
  - jquery 4y ago
    And many of them are walking around 100% compromised from a security perspective.
    - throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
      even if that was true, they'd rather have a vulnerable device than a brick. just like they'd rather not have their 5+ year old car seized and their 5+ year old house demolished for their own safety
- Tade0 4y ago
  My sister's Galaxy S3 Mini is alive and well. Just needed a battery replacement. Same goes for my SO's Galaxy Ace 4 Style, which she left lying there for an iPhone SE, but might return to the Samsung because the iPhone, while being a great device overall, will now require a battery replacement procedure because it wasn't designed for doing that at home and the battery is very much dead. My Galaxy S8 is humming along nicely even though I subject it to a lot of environmental stress daily by e.g. showering with it in hand. Bottom line is iPhones aren't that special in this regard anymore.
  - _Algernon_ 4y ago
    The main issue on Android for longevity isn't hardware. It's that you rarely get software updates - or even security updates - beyond a couple of years. An 8 year old device may be completely usable based on the hardware, but still not be able to run or download new apps, all while being a walking botnet.
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  You'll have to use my imagination, since I don't believe there's a way to attach a photo, but pretend I'm showing you the Android phone that's currently in my pocket.
- jve 4y ago
  > Most fall apart within two. Maybe some budged non-flagship Android. You ought to compare iPhones to flagship Android devices. Because iPhone is a flagship device. Don't spread misinformation.
theshrike79 4y ago
Why has the good consumer skipped SIX major OS updates?
- mvanbaak 4y ago
  to create a youtube vid with a clickbait title so they can earn more on ad impressions
odiroot 4y ago
I'm sorry, too busy eating the bugs.

planb 4y ago

Is there any source for this that is not a YouTube video? Last week I tried to unlock my old iPhone SE to use it as a data logger, but I forgot the passcode. At least I thought so because the device wouldn’t unlock. Am I affected by this or did I just really forget the code?

easton 4y ago
You probably did forget the code. If you were affected by this issue, the phone would’ve been stuck in the first time setup screen.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

implements 4y ago

Seems to an issue for older phones running pre iOS 10 (according to the BTL comments) due to a change in the phone recognition / activation protocol.

szdva 4y ago

Okay, so upgrade? Why are you still using iOS 9 on an iPhone 6s which supports iOS 15?

Shank 4y ago
The crux of Hugh Jeffreys' argument is that sometimes, upgrading reduces the performance of the device. Therefore, a lot of people want to keep old devices on old versions of iOS, so as to maintain the "out-of-box experience" / performance. I don't know that I have an opinion on this, but that's what Hugh Jeffreys' argument seems to be.
- dontlaugh 4y ago
  iOS 15 works just fine on the 6s. Can’t say it’s noticeably slower.
- tuetuopay 4y ago
  Better poor performance than a brick. And iOS 15 performance on the 6s is far from abysmal. Sure you don't have the out of the box experience. But you have the 2022 experience.
  - paganel 4y ago
    I don’t care about the “2022 experience”, whatever that is supposed to mean, I care about having an experience as close as possible to the phone that I purchased (I think I bought this last one in 2018 or so).
- theshrike79 4y ago
  This is mostly superstition and anecdotes with no real data to back it up. Yes, a fresh iOS install sometimes causes some slowdown for a day or two maybe when the local-only ML models go through your local-only data and recalculate the new stuff it now knows how to do in the background. After that it's going to be as smooth as it ever was.
  - 4y ago

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago

I saw this a while ago and I'm confused about this issue. It seems like you can upgrade to a newer iOS version and activate just fine. Is there a specific reason this is not option?

MereInterest 4y ago
Because in the past, Apple has marked iOS versions as compatible even where the hardware performance isn’t sufficient for reasonable use. Since Apple also doesn’t support downgrades of iOS versions, users are reasonably wary at taking Apple at their word for compatibility.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Just once, for one device. It was one of the iPad Airs I think. It had a way too high resolution display for the CPU and really suffered from OS updates. It's not a problem anymore since most Apple devices are ridiculously overpowered and they have separated iOS from iPadOS.
  - rekoil 4y ago
    Many people mistakenly attribute what the OS does when it detects a degraded battery as an example of this, since it appeared in an update and wasn't properly explained (and no opt-out was provided initially). It's hard to fault them honestly, most people don't understand how degraded batteries affect their device, they think it's just about how many hours the device lasts on a full charge, when in reality it's much more complex.
  - MereInterest 4y ago
    Nope, it was the main iPhone line. 2017: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2017/12/20/apple-iphone-kill-switch-ios-degrade-cripple-performance-battery/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2017/12/20/apple-iph... I’m also not sure why “just once” is supposed to buy back trust. They still don’t allow for iOS downgrades, so the underlying issue hasn’t been addressed.

incrudible 4y ago

The way I see it, the complaint here is that Apple does not say why they do this (regulatory violations in outdated iOS versions). As long as there is an upgrade path or some alternative for data retrieval, I do not see the issue, but this rather clickbaity video does not make this clear.

Gigachad 4y ago
This YouTuber thrives on anti Apple clickbait.
my123 4y ago
The upgrade path in this scenario is clicking the Upgrade option when having the phone plugged in to iTunes or Finder. This however needs a bigger computer to do it.

grishka 4y ago

It should be illegal for a general-purpose device like a smartphone to be remotely controllable like this by anyone but its owner.

Arnt 4y ago
What's your opinion about the Samsung Galaxy Note 7? That's the one whose battery tended to explode, maybe ten years ago. Samsung offered to replace them, and eventually bricked the remaining devices.
- grishka 4y ago
  It's still Android though, you can still downgrade the system and/or root it. Android, unlike iOS, is not tied to any servers whatsoever.
  - Arnt 4y ago
    As I heard the story, Samsung bricked them. No downgrade possible, no root, no use, no explosion.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Let’s add for completeness’s sake that most Androids will literally wipe their proprietary firmware for e.g. their cameras, giving you a very expensive device that takes much shittier photos then it is capable of. They are not at all like laptops where you can freely change the OS, the only devices like that are Pixels.
dTal 4y ago
That would merely incentivize locking down general purpose devices until they can no longer be considered general purpose. Perhaps by restricting the set of programs that can be installed. Probably you'd end up with some kind of "app store" that... wait...
- grishka 4y ago
  It is a general-purpose device if its official SDK is publicly available and does not require an NDA.

elzbardico 4y ago

The iphone 6 supports ios 15. This is a problem for people that refuse to update their devices from ios 9. It is all related to changes in the activation protocol, which was utterly broken and allowed all kinds of iCloud bypasses for activation; update it to a newer version, and it uses the newer protocol and no problem at all. This is a nine-year-old device that can still be updated.

loloquwowndueo 4y ago
“Refuse to update” ? If the device otherwise works well why should one do this?
- whynaut 4y ago
  > utterly broken
- sbuk 4y ago
  In this case, to prevent oneself being locked out of one’s device.
- mvanbaak 4y ago
  security updates are important. and on a mobile device that's connected it's really important.
  - mihaaly 4y ago
    it was so good if it was security update only and not f-ing up existing functionality - on top of poor security release fixes - and forcing on the user unrelated and never needed other things as well. this 'security' rasoning for update thing is a big fat lie! do security updates only then!
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - elzbardico 4y ago

mherrmann 4y ago

I had an iPad 1 a long time ago. After just a few years, it stopped receiving updates. This meant that I could no longer install or update most apps. And then the apps broke as well because they needed updates to continue to function. The hardware was still perfectly fine. But the device became essentially bricked after a few years. Terrible experience.

mherrmann 4y ago
Forgot to add that I also made the mistake of uninstalling Vlc at some point. It was still working. But then I couldn't get it back because the app store didn't let me install it any more.
- galad87 4y ago
  Developers can decide to allow the download of the latest compatible version for old devices, but it seems a lot decides to against it. So unless you manually backup the apps, it's really a pain to restore things on old devices.
- latexr 4y ago
  Don’t try to install it from its store page, but from your “Purchased” list on your account. That should get the latest version you had access to. I haven’t tried that in years, so something may have changed.
- alamortsubite 4y ago
  I made this same mistake with an old iPod. It would have been nice if Apple had at least warned me on uninstall before slapping me in the face. That was the last day I used that device.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  I've received an old iPad to play around with running iOS 9. Safari is essentially crippled by a lack of software updates but old versions of the apps can still be installed. Because of Apple's great software design, you need an old version of iTunes. From there, you can add apps to your account. Then, on the iPad, you can install "purchased" apps. The store itself is completely useless as nothing will install, but the "purchased" page will let you download the last version that works on the device.

Tepix 4y ago

So if i wipe my old pre iOS 15 phone and sell it to someone else, they cannot activate it? As a user who buys such an old phone i would expect grave security holes. But not being able to use the phone at all is harsh. Planned obsolescence?

rcarr 4y ago

Yesterday I tried to help out my motorcycle instructor (and owner of the entire motorcycle school) whose business Facebook page had disappeared (the business account was still there). I downloaded the logs for the account and they were blank too, it was like the page never existed. I have no idea if: - He or an employee deleted it accidentally - Facebook deleted it. - His account was hacked and it was deleted He had no form of 2FA switched on so I tried to help him set it up in case it was the latter in order to prevent it happening again. My first port of call was to try and use the built in Apple passwords in the iPhone settings that now allows you to scan QR codes and set keys. To my surprise, the setting was not there. Why? Because he was using an iPhone that cannot update past iOS 12. It got worse. Rather than dotting out the passwords and requiring you to click on them to reveal them, the passwords were just sitting there in plain sight for all to see. If I had been a black hat I would have been having a field day. After failing with the built in Apple option I tried to download a third party authenticator app but there were no applications in the App Store that supported iOS 12. In the end I had to settle for SMS authentication. I asked him why he was still using such an old iPhone (he could clearly afford to update to a newer model) and explained the security risks of using such an old device. His response was that he didn’t like phones and didn’t want to spend any money on another one. I get the scepticism around Apple doing this but I’m not entirely sure it’s a bad thing.

prepend 4y ago
> It got worse. Rather than dotting out the passwords and requiring you to click on them to reveal them, the passwords were just sitting there in plain sight for all to see. Isn’t this only once you authenticate with password or biometrics? The passwords are shown in clear text so they can be cut and pasted for use. I don’t think this is a risk as it means someone gave you access to the device password in the first place.
- rcarr 4y ago
  I believe so yes. But it is still better practice to have them dotted out until clicked on to minimise the chances of other people seeing them.

rswail 4y ago

I was going to read through the comments, but, as per usual, there is the "Android is better 'cos I can unlock it and do what I want". Yes, this is true. Don't buy an iPhone/iPad/Mac. I've been hacking for 30+ years, I like that Apple has locked down the phones and the Mac is not locked other than Apple locking their OS. It doesn't stop me installing Macports and then the endless array of FOSS that I want. General purpose computing is slowly evolving, like every other technology before it, to separation of the creation of code from the use of code. Computers and phones are a tool for most people, the act of coding and/or going outside the provided ecosystem is something that the majority of people, for the majority of the time, don't want or, in a lot of cases, need. Most people don't have shortwave radios anymore, neither are they interested in amateur radio etc. Government regulations have "locked down" the radio ecosystem but maintained the capabilities for those that want to explore radio "hacking". Computing is going the same way. If you want to hack your own environment, there are perfectly cromulent alternatives. Android and AOSP for phones and tablets, Linux and the *BSDs for general computing.

ihatepython 4y ago
I cannot take seriously a comment that uses the word 'cromulent' for no particular reason. Please, take the time to embiggen your vocabulary.

lelag 4y ago

I think it should be mandatory for tech companies with some revenue threshold to open-source the necessary bits (bootloader, driver spec, etc) required for the community to port Linux or other open-sources OS on devices they intent on stop supporting. Maybe 20 years ago and before, devices were made obsolete so fast that it would not have made sense to try to extend the live of hardware but it's no longer the case. Old phones and tablets are perfectly fine for a lot of use cases, they took a lot of natural resources to build and they can only collect dust in drawers or fill landfills now. Finally we are realising that the Earth has finite resources and we should try to make the most of what we have. Increasing the life of existing IT devices by not withholding informations would be a good first step. The nice part about such a law, is that companies that want to keep their stuff private would have a way to do so: just keep supporting the devices. If it's not worth supporting, you should not be allowed to keep the IP closed if that prevent the devices from being useful.

rekoil 4y ago
I was hoping that the new gatekeeper laws in the EU would go this far, but they don't. I'm still very happy about them, but I really was hoping they would force Apple to give customers the ability to unlock the bootloader of iOS devices.
- notwokeno 4y ago
  It sounds like they're unlikely to actually change anything. Apple is still going to require reviewing all of the apps you'll just get to choose different GUIs for downloading them.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Yep, it’s actually kinda disappointing how seemingly nobody saw this coming and years of legal effort went into a law that will have very little practical effect except making companies shuffle things around and then continue business as usual.
  - rekoil 4y ago

bilsbie 4y ago

I still don’t understand why I lost all my music on my last phone upgrade. I had my entire phone backing up to iCloud. Logged in on the new phone and it downloaded all my data. But music is gone!

tantalor 4y ago

These devices are not "bricked"! That is misinformation intended to cast Apple as a villain and these users as poor innocents. In reality, these devices still work fine, and these users are trying to run unsupported software on them. My partner prefers the old iPhone SE and she has no problem running the latest version of iOS on it.

qwerty456127 4y ago

I'd say iPhone 6S isn't even old. I was expecting this to be about iPhone 2 or something like that. I even planned to buy an iPhone 4 because I like its design.

kkielhofner 4y ago
> iPhone 4 I don't know what your plans are for this iPhone 4 but it doesn't support 4G and won't work most places (like all of the US).
Gigachad 4y ago
It still works. The user just has to update it.

doe88 4y ago

One of the worst thing on old systems not supported anymore is the lack of updates of SSL certificates, nowdays you can't do nothing without valid certificates, everything stops working.

mindcrash 4y ago

I still have a working iPhone 4 which I use together with a alarm clock with dock as a expanded alarm clock and I do not have any issues at all. So maybe the trick is when you do not use your old iPhone as daily driver anymore pull out the SIM card and everything seems to be OK (would not recommend to use old iPhones in the wild anyway, due to severe security risks)