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Blaming capitalism for corruption while giving government more and more power, solution: let's give the government more power in the name of social justice and

Blaming capitalism for corruption while giving government more and more power, solution: let's give the government more power in the name of social justice and expect that no one in the system is corrupted - wow, that's just perfect reasoning... Socialism never worked in the past, because it simply ignores the fact that people have no reason to work hard when they see someone who's chilling gets the same outcome.

chimprich 4y ago
> Blaming capitalism for corruption while giving government more and more power Do you think governments have had "more and more power" in the last fifty years? What is your reasoning? To me, it seems like capital has far more power compared to fifty years ago. > let's give the government more power in the name of social justice and expect that no one in the system is corrupted Spoken like a true ideologue. Does this argument not work in reverse? Money == power. If you concentrate more and more wealth in fewer hands, then you can also expect corruption. > it simply ignores the fact that people have no reason to work hard when they see someone who's chilling gets the same outcome The thing about capitalism is that capital generates capital. Someone who is already wealthy can "chill" and get a better outcome than someone who works much harder.
- bladelessninja2 4y ago
  > Do you think governments have had "more and more power" in the last fifty years? What is your reasoning? If opposite was true then there would be never debate about helping bankers after crisis few years back, government shouldn't have power to "help" private investors with taxpayers' money. > If you concentrate more and more wealth in fewer hands, then you can also expect corruption. Why should I care about corruption inside companies? Corrupted companies are less effective, they will eventually die. What I care about is corruption inside government - you have no solution for corrupted officials - I have: just don't give them too much power, then even if they are corrupted they won't make much damage. > The thing about capitalism is that capital generates capital. Someone who is already wealthy can "chill" and get a better outcome than someone who works much harder. That's not the feature of capitalism, that's feature of corrupted government with too much power - in free market, if you have capital and don't create any goods, but only spend it eventually you have less capital - it's simple math.
  - chimprich 4y ago
    > Why should I care about corruption inside companies? Corrupted companies are less effective, they will eventually die. Assuming that's true, "eventually die" doesn't sound great for the vulnerable workers of the company, who have lost out on wages due to said corruption and are now unemployed. > you have no solution for corrupted officials Sure I do. There's the media, the judicial system, and the ballot box. > in free market, if you have capital and don't create any goods, but only spend it eventually you have less capital That's not a rebuttal of what I said, and it's not necessarily correct either. You can, for example, buy land and rent it out.
    - bladelessninja2 4y ago
      > doesn't sound great for the vulnerable workers of the company, who have lost out on wages due to said corruption and are now unemployed. Why would they be unemployed? Why wouldn't they work for someone else or even start their own business? You assume people are helpless, I hope it's not the projection of your own experience. > Sure I do. There's the media, the judicial system, and the ballot box. How they (except the last one) are doing so far? > You can, for example, buy land and rent it out. That's already investment, that's already doing something with a risk involved. You can buy a land that no one would rent out. Besides the things above: you still don't propose any explanation why socialism will work this time, when it happened to lead to tragedy so many times before (I assume you agree with my proof of why the system USA lean towards socialism since you haven't argued with that proof).
  - rebuild143 4y ago
    > If opposite was true then there would be never debate about helping bankers after crisis few years back, government shouldn't have power to "help" private investors with taxpayers' money. Maybe it's not that the government doesn't have power, but more like the government's power has become a tool for the rich and their corporations due to their larger influence. > Corrupted companies are less effective, they will eventually die. Why is this true? Anyone could state the opposite without proof: that corrupted companies are more effective and thrive. > in free market, if you have capital and don't create any goods, but only spend it eventually you have less capital - it's simple math. It's not like capitalists just sit on their cash and burn it; their capital is in wealth-producing assets. They don't need to create any goods themselves. Their outsized wealth owns things that does that for them.
28304283409234 4y ago
"... Socialism never worked in the past" It did. It does. Just not in the United States. In the Netherlands socialism worked just fine and provided many great benefits to all, except the super wealthy.
- bladelessninja2 4y ago
  Are you talking the country that gained its wealth from years of capitalism and centuries of colonialism? Yep, it will fail soon, like it always do.
  - 28304283409234 4y ago
    Absolutely. And stole that wealth through extreme capitalistic liberal methods.

chimprich 4y ago

> Blaming capitalism for corruption while giving government more and more power Do you think governments have had "more and more power" in the last fifty years? What is your reasoning? To me, it seems like capital has far more power compared to fifty years ago. > let's give the government more power in the name of social justice and expect that no one in the system is corrupted Spoken like a true ideologue. Does this argument not work in reverse? Money == power. If you concentrate more and more wealth in fewer hands, then you can also expect corruption. > it simply ignores the fact that people have no reason to work hard when they see someone who's chilling gets the same outcome The thing about capitalism is that capital generates capital. Someone who is already wealthy can "chill" and get a better outcome than someone who works much harder.

bladelessninja2 4y ago
> Do you think governments have had "more and more power" in the last fifty years? What is your reasoning? If opposite was true then there would be never debate about helping bankers after crisis few years back, government shouldn't have power to "help" private investors with taxpayers' money. > If you concentrate more and more wealth in fewer hands, then you can also expect corruption. Why should I care about corruption inside companies? Corrupted companies are less effective, they will eventually die. What I care about is corruption inside government - you have no solution for corrupted officials - I have: just don't give them too much power, then even if they are corrupted they won't make much damage. > The thing about capitalism is that capital generates capital. Someone who is already wealthy can "chill" and get a better outcome than someone who works much harder. That's not the feature of capitalism, that's feature of corrupted government with too much power - in free market, if you have capital and don't create any goods, but only spend it eventually you have less capital - it's simple math.
- chimprich 4y ago
  > Why should I care about corruption inside companies? Corrupted companies are less effective, they will eventually die. Assuming that's true, "eventually die" doesn't sound great for the vulnerable workers of the company, who have lost out on wages due to said corruption and are now unemployed. > you have no solution for corrupted officials Sure I do. There's the media, the judicial system, and the ballot box. > in free market, if you have capital and don't create any goods, but only spend it eventually you have less capital That's not a rebuttal of what I said, and it's not necessarily correct either. You can, for example, buy land and rent it out.
  - bladelessninja2 4y ago
    > doesn't sound great for the vulnerable workers of the company, who have lost out on wages due to said corruption and are now unemployed. Why would they be unemployed? Why wouldn't they work for someone else or even start their own business? You assume people are helpless, I hope it's not the projection of your own experience. > Sure I do. There's the media, the judicial system, and the ballot box. How they (except the last one) are doing so far? > You can, for example, buy land and rent it out. That's already investment, that's already doing something with a risk involved. You can buy a land that no one would rent out. Besides the things above: you still don't propose any explanation why socialism will work this time, when it happened to lead to tragedy so many times before (I assume you agree with my proof of why the system USA lean towards socialism since you haven't argued with that proof).
- rebuild143 4y ago
  > If opposite was true then there would be never debate about helping bankers after crisis few years back, government shouldn't have power to "help" private investors with taxpayers' money. Maybe it's not that the government doesn't have power, but more like the government's power has become a tool for the rich and their corporations due to their larger influence. > Corrupted companies are less effective, they will eventually die. Why is this true? Anyone could state the opposite without proof: that corrupted companies are more effective and thrive. > in free market, if you have capital and don't create any goods, but only spend it eventually you have less capital - it's simple math. It's not like capitalists just sit on their cash and burn it; their capital is in wealth-producing assets. They don't need to create any goods themselves. Their outsized wealth owns things that does that for them.

28304283409234 4y ago

"... Socialism never worked in the past" It did. It does. Just not in the United States. In the Netherlands socialism worked just fine and provided many great benefits to all, except the super wealthy.

bladelessninja2 4y ago
Are you talking the country that gained its wealth from years of capitalism and centuries of colonialism? Yep, it will fail soon, like it always do.
- 28304283409234 4y ago
  Absolutely. And stole that wealth through extreme capitalistic liberal methods.