4 ms·

You need to stop thinking about bringing your own footprint ever closer to zero, you must also stop thinking that doing so is a powerful revolutionary act, and

by mrpopo 4y ago

You need to stop thinking about bringing your own footprint ever closer to zero, you must also stop thinking that doing so is a powerful revolutionary act, and join or create organized groups vowing to bring about social change. Be it in your family, your neighbourhood or your municipality. Forget shorter showers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2TbrtCGbhQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2TbrtCGbhQ

saiya-jin 4y ago
Yes, unfortunately the core item that more hardcore evangelists for topic XYZ seem to be unable to grasp, maybe due to being too close/deep in the subject. If I had a NFT every time somebody on HN stated 'we need to abandon cars, or abandon plastics altogether' and similar, I would be drowning in a lot of useless tokens. The thing is, the motivation for given topic is always fair and just, and so are the goals, so its normal to want to do more and more. But at one point they move so far from general population they are seen as extremists, and whatever good their push is trying to achieve is completely blocked by this extreme approach and negative emotions it sparks. Get engaged in politics, create groups, figure out who has real deciding power and apply soft pressure there... this is how good changes are done in timely manner. Other way is to wait till SHTF and there is reaction, but damage is already done like in this topic. Otherwise society just heads to division and conflict on many levels, and as for example covid showed us if you push big part of population hard/long enough they will eventually move to some outright non-smart positions that will be then very hard to abandon.
- Retric 4y ago
  The secret is to aim for lesser goals. Don’t try to get rid of all plastics just aim to reduce some specific kind of single use plastic etc. Setup an organization to ban cars in the central core of your city. The advantage to ‘save the whales’ over save every endangered species is it’s much easier to gain traction and you can pick the easiest targets.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Plus if you can somehow get the numbers, everything is a 80-20 deal. 80% of the bang can be gotten for 20% of the buck. I'm reasonably sure Coca Cola and co should be the biggest targets in the anti-plastic campaign.
hoosieree 4y ago
Framing climate change as a "consumer choice" problem was brilliant marketing.
eternityforest 4y ago
The problem is so many of the revolutionary groups are full of anarchoprimitivists and the like. I sure wouldn't want a revolution that put them in charge. It's getting scary out there with how many people openly want industrial society to end. Many of them don't even care about reducing resource consumption, they're goals are much more philosophical. We'd wind up with wood stoves instead of solar panels. Resources consumption would go down, maybe, but it might just be because a lot of people would die. Other than than that, obviously I'm all for improving society and all.

by mrpopo 4y ago

saiya-jin 4y ago

Yes, unfortunately the core item that more hardcore evangelists for topic XYZ seem to be unable to grasp, maybe due to being too close/deep in the subject. If I had a NFT every time somebody on HN stated 'we need to abandon cars, or abandon plastics altogether' and similar, I would be drowning in a lot of useless tokens. The thing is, the motivation for given topic is always fair and just, and so are the goals, so its normal to want to do more and more. But at one point they move so far from general population they are seen as extremists, and whatever good their push is trying to achieve is completely blocked by this extreme approach and negative emotions it sparks. Get engaged in politics, create groups, figure out who has real deciding power and apply soft pressure there... this is how good changes are done in timely manner. Other way is to wait till SHTF and there is reaction, but damage is already done like in this topic. Otherwise society just heads to division and conflict on many levels, and as for example covid showed us if you push big part of population hard/long enough they will eventually move to some outright non-smart positions that will be then very hard to abandon.

Retric 4y ago
The secret is to aim for lesser goals. Don’t try to get rid of all plastics just aim to reduce some specific kind of single use plastic etc. Setup an organization to ban cars in the central core of your city. The advantage to ‘save the whales’ over save every endangered species is it’s much easier to gain traction and you can pick the easiest targets.
- oblio 4y ago
  Plus if you can somehow get the numbers, everything is a 80-20 deal. 80% of the bang can be gotten for 20% of the buck. I'm reasonably sure Coca Cola and co should be the biggest targets in the anti-plastic campaign.

hoosieree 4y ago

Framing climate change as a "consumer choice" problem was brilliant marketing.

eternityforest 4y ago

The problem is so many of the revolutionary groups are full of anarchoprimitivists and the like. I sure wouldn't want a revolution that put them in charge. It's getting scary out there with how many people openly want industrial society to end. Many of them don't even care about reducing resource consumption, they're goals are much more philosophical. We'd wind up with wood stoves instead of solar panels. Resources consumption would go down, maybe, but it might just be because a lot of people would die. Other than than that, obviously I'm all for improving society and all.