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The US perspective is trong here. > Grocery stores are very low-margin. They basically only work at scale. > You need a lot of space, and a lot of customers.

The US perspective is trong here. > Grocery stores are very low-margin. They basically only work at scale. > You need a lot of space, and a lot of customers. That contradicts most of human history and is still wrong today. In fact for most of history most people walked to a small store that had some fresh products outside and you just pick them up. The problem is that in the US you force stores into these commercial zones that are separated from housing zones and force people to drive there. Countries that are much poorer then the US have systems where almost everybody can get pretty easy access to a store and that store usually had fresh products. Me and a friend walk threw some back allies in Haifa Israel and walked right up to a little store with some fresh fruit and most of what you need. Yet, such stores don't exist in US suberbia. These are all urban planning issues.

jjav 4y ago
> Yet, such stores don't exist in US suberbia. I'm living here in US suburbia (California) and it is literally (measured using google maps) 600ft to the nearest store that sells some groceries and 1300ft to the nearest full-size supermarket. And the second full-size supermaket is about 2000ft away.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  That may be the case in your location, but you can go look at zonening maps and its not the case. Many city have 80 or sometimes 90% of R1 zoning where no grocery stores are allowed. And it also shows up in data showing how many less then 5mile trips are maybe by car in the US and grocery shopping is one of the major drivers of such trips.
- escapedmoose 4y ago
  Living in several areas of US suburbia as well, I was nearing my 30s before I lived in a place with grocery stores that I could even bike to, let alone walk. My quality of life increased drastically when I was finally able to walk/bike to the store. Walkable suburbia exists in the US, but it’s not the norm. Don’t take it for granted :)
  - jjav 4y ago
    > Living in several areas of US suburbia as well, I was nearing my 30s before I lived in a place with grocery stores that I could even bike to, let alone walk. I read this a lot so I believe it, but haven't really experienced it. I've lived in a couple places on the east coast and multiple places in California and only once there hasn't been one or more supermarkets within walking distance. And that one place was quite rural so it was not comparable to any suburbs.
FrontierPsych 4y ago
>The problem is that in the US you force stores into these commercial zones that are separated from housing zones and force people to drive there. Yeah, but this is just an inconvenience. There is no reason why there should be an issue to drive 1 or 2 or 8 miles to get a good deal on healthy food. Even if you don't have a car, find a friend or church that does. As I've said elsewhere, my relatives lived in the middle of nowhere, and had to travel 60 miles - an hour and a half each way - to go to the Costco to stock up on staples. You have to drive for 15 minutes to a grocery store??? Oh, misery. The world is coming to an end. We need to get someone here to peel my grapes and feed them to me, place them in my mouth one-by-one so that I have to do nothing. I just want to be treated as a Roman emperor, I live in the USA...isn't that everyone's right?
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Needing community support to buy 1kg of carrots is kind of insane. > As I've said elsewhere, my relatives lived in the middle of nowhere, and had to travel 60 miles - an hour and a half each way - to go to the Costco to stock up on staples. That's a very exceptional situation and not really representative of how most people live. > You have to drive for 15 minutes to a grocery store??? Oh, misery. The world is coming to an end. Well yes, polluting the world with inefficient land use forcing 100s of millions to drive everytime they want to buy milk is a problem. This is specially a problem when you can only go when you don't have to work and maybe at those time there is also traffic. So you only go once a week or every 2 weeks, meaning you end up buying less perishable foods. 15min, lol, in 15min I walk to the shop, buy something and I'm back home already. Also, simply complaining that people are how they are isn't helpful, its just a reality of the situation. You can either have an urban planning and infrastructure policy that supports what makes people lives better, or you don't.
  - FrontierPsych 4y ago
    As long as I can have someone peeling my grapes and feeding them to my\e one at a time, I'll be happy. I just cannot be incovenienced, it is the right of all Americans.
etchalon 4y ago
Sorry, yes, everything I said is mostly relevant in the US, and is the only country/culture I can speak to with anything resembling authority. I know things are much different elsewhere.

jjav 4y ago

> Yet, such stores don't exist in US suberbia. I'm living here in US suburbia (California) and it is literally (measured using google maps) 600ft to the nearest store that sells some groceries and 1300ft to the nearest full-size supermarket. And the second full-size supermaket is about 2000ft away.

panick21_ 4y ago
That may be the case in your location, but you can go look at zonening maps and its not the case. Many city have 80 or sometimes 90% of R1 zoning where no grocery stores are allowed. And it also shows up in data showing how many less then 5mile trips are maybe by car in the US and grocery shopping is one of the major drivers of such trips.
escapedmoose 4y ago
Living in several areas of US suburbia as well, I was nearing my 30s before I lived in a place with grocery stores that I could even bike to, let alone walk. My quality of life increased drastically when I was finally able to walk/bike to the store. Walkable suburbia exists in the US, but it’s not the norm. Don’t take it for granted :)
- jjav 4y ago
  > Living in several areas of US suburbia as well, I was nearing my 30s before I lived in a place with grocery stores that I could even bike to, let alone walk. I read this a lot so I believe it, but haven't really experienced it. I've lived in a couple places on the east coast and multiple places in California and only once there hasn't been one or more supermarkets within walking distance. And that one place was quite rural so it was not comparable to any suburbs.

FrontierPsych 4y ago

>The problem is that in the US you force stores into these commercial zones that are separated from housing zones and force people to drive there. Yeah, but this is just an inconvenience. There is no reason why there should be an issue to drive 1 or 2 or 8 miles to get a good deal on healthy food. Even if you don't have a car, find a friend or church that does. As I've said elsewhere, my relatives lived in the middle of nowhere, and had to travel 60 miles - an hour and a half each way - to go to the Costco to stock up on staples. You have to drive for 15 minutes to a grocery store??? Oh, misery. The world is coming to an end. We need to get someone here to peel my grapes and feed them to me, place them in my mouth one-by-one so that I have to do nothing. I just want to be treated as a Roman emperor, I live in the USA...isn't that everyone's right?

panick21_ 4y ago
Needing community support to buy 1kg of carrots is kind of insane. > As I've said elsewhere, my relatives lived in the middle of nowhere, and had to travel 60 miles - an hour and a half each way - to go to the Costco to stock up on staples. That's a very exceptional situation and not really representative of how most people live. > You have to drive for 15 minutes to a grocery store??? Oh, misery. The world is coming to an end. Well yes, polluting the world with inefficient land use forcing 100s of millions to drive everytime they want to buy milk is a problem. This is specially a problem when you can only go when you don't have to work and maybe at those time there is also traffic. So you only go once a week or every 2 weeks, meaning you end up buying less perishable foods. 15min, lol, in 15min I walk to the shop, buy something and I'm back home already. Also, simply complaining that people are how they are isn't helpful, its just a reality of the situation. You can either have an urban planning and infrastructure policy that supports what makes people lives better, or you don't.
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  As long as I can have someone peeling my grapes and feeding them to my\e one at a time, I'll be happy. I just cannot be incovenienced, it is the right of all Americans.

etchalon 4y ago

Sorry, yes, everything I said is mostly relevant in the US, and is the only country/culture I can speak to with anything resembling authority. I know things are much different elsewhere.