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> It's psychotic how much psychological weight people put on homeownership. When the options are "pay hundreds to a couple thousands of dollars per month for 3

> It's psychotic how much psychological weight people put on homeownership. When the options are "pay hundreds to a couple thousands of dollars per month for 30 years or less" v. "pay hundreds more than that per month in perpetuity", it should be entirely unsurprising that the former is vastly preferable.

esoterica 4y ago
Renting is not in general more cash flow negative than having a mortgage.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  It takes all of five minutes clicking around on Zillow to prove without a shred of doubt that yes, it is more cash flow negative than having a mortgage, by a margin on the scale of hundreds of dollars at minimum. This really should not be surprising, considering the number of SFHs owned by landlords using their tenants' rent payments to pay for the mortgage and property taxes and profit on top of that (that being the situation of my now-deceased father and still-living stepmother, whose landlord has on multiple occasions jacked up the rent to cover the new mortgage payments from refinances).
- rsj_hn 4y ago
  Both owning and renting will cost you money (on average). Generally if you are living in a place where you can't afford to buy, you also shouldn't rent in the same neighborhood. But that's not what happens -- e.g. people move to San Francisco and then see the high house prices and convince themselves they can afford to rent there but not own. It's not cheaper to rent, on average [there is a lot of variability and opportunity for trading gains in real estate due to leverage] -- but overall, the price of these two is comparable, however renting is a more accessible way to overspend than owning. As a result of this increased accessibility, rental property prices are higher than they should be, due to increased demand, and what actually happens is that people who rent tend to lose more, on average, than those who own, because they are more likely to overspend on rent, given their income and financial situation. If prospective renters had to go through the same third party vetting processes as those who take out a mortgage - everything from an independent assessment of the value of the property, an inspection, third party vetting of your financial history -- you would also see a reduction in foolish renting choices and then renters would not, on average, experience greater losses than owners. But right now they do.

esoterica 4y ago

Renting is not in general more cash flow negative than having a mortgage.

yellowapple 4y ago
It takes all of five minutes clicking around on Zillow to prove without a shred of doubt that yes, it is more cash flow negative than having a mortgage, by a margin on the scale of hundreds of dollars at minimum. This really should not be surprising, considering the number of SFHs owned by landlords using their tenants' rent payments to pay for the mortgage and property taxes and profit on top of that (that being the situation of my now-deceased father and still-living stepmother, whose landlord has on multiple occasions jacked up the rent to cover the new mortgage payments from refinances).
rsj_hn 4y ago
Both owning and renting will cost you money (on average). Generally if you are living in a place where you can't afford to buy, you also shouldn't rent in the same neighborhood. But that's not what happens -- e.g. people move to San Francisco and then see the high house prices and convince themselves they can afford to rent there but not own. It's not cheaper to rent, on average [there is a lot of variability and opportunity for trading gains in real estate due to leverage] -- but overall, the price of these two is comparable, however renting is a more accessible way to overspend than owning. As a result of this increased accessibility, rental property prices are higher than they should be, due to increased demand, and what actually happens is that people who rent tend to lose more, on average, than those who own, because they are more likely to overspend on rent, given their income and financial situation. If prospective renters had to go through the same third party vetting processes as those who take out a mortgage - everything from an independent assessment of the value of the property, an inspection, third party vetting of your financial history -- you would also see a reduction in foolish renting choices and then renters would not, on average, experience greater losses than owners. But right now they do.