4 ms·

Taliban issues an edict banning all women from universities

21 points by walrus01 4y ago

ggm 4y ago
In the calculus of US strategic foreign policy, a campaign to bankrupt the soviets by arming the Afghan mujahideen seems to have had a very long tail. Every time I see photos of 1960s Persian and Afghani women I find myself thinking about this.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  > Every time I see photos of 1960s Persian and Afghani women I find myself thinking about this. One cause of what happened is also that, though. A large part, if not the majority, of the population is conservative and did not approve of this "westernisation".
  - ggm 4y ago
    Indeed. Many women welcomed Khomeini back from Paris in '79 Nothing is one dimensional.
  - yucky 4y ago
    Which raises the question of "who are we to determine what values a society should embrace"? Doesn't that make us cultural imperialists/colonialists?
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      Yes, this is trying to impose our ways on others. The thing is that, as we see again and again, it does not work, anyway. Cultural and societal values cannot be imposed by 'foreigners', if anything this only creates a reaction against it and to more conservatism.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
I'm very sad to see this, yet I have mixed feelings about unilaterally condeming it: Yet on Tuesday, the education ministry said its scholars had evaluated the university curriculum and environment, and attendance for girls would be suspended "until a suitable environment" was provided. It added that it would soon provide such a setting and "citizens should not be worried". Prior to Tuesday's announcement, universities had already been operating under discriminatory rules for women since the Taliban takeover in 2021. There were gender segregated entrances and classrooms, and female students could only be taught by women professors or old men. It is the wrong way to handle it, but I have to wonder if there are any legitimate concerns behind some of these moves. I cannot help but think about how women get raped and murdered in war torn countries, women get raped and murdered for trying to urinate or defecate in a field designated for such in places with too much population and too little infrastructure, women get sexually assaulted by coworkers, classmates, etc.
thdespou 4y ago
People in Afganistan, do not want to see progress in their country. Period. They chose this life of fanatism and hatred. They let the Taliban rule. All the money or support in the world cannot change that sadly.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Let's not pretend we gave them a better option. To add some color (this isn't the only abuse but the most obvious one, particularly to western audiences): A tactic that the Taliban used to great effect was to lure collition aligned forces by having young boys stand on street corners and when the US backed Afghan police went to rape the child, ambush them. > "The Taliban are sending boys — beautiful boys, handsome boys — to penetrate checkpoints and kill, drug and poison policemen," said Ghulam Sakhi Rogh Lewanai, who was Uruzgan's police chief until he was removed in a security reshuffle in April amid worsening violence.[0] US servicemen have come home with PTSD, not from combat but having to share a hotel with US aligned Afghans and hearing young boys be repeatedly raped in the next room. Those who spoke up were punished.[1] Step into their shoes, a foreign invader installs pedophiles to run your government and rape your sons. You expect them to support it? Personally I'd start building IEDs. [0]https://www.businessinsider.com/afp-taliban-use-honey-trap-boys-to-kill-afghan-police-2016-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/afp-taliban-use-honey-trap-b... [1]https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/american-military-told-troops-to-ignore-afghan-allies-child-sex-abuse-called-bacha-bazi.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/american-militar... [additional reading]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Additional citation: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/dancingboys/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/dancingboys/
- throwntoday 4y ago
  No, what they chose was to reject the western ideals that are leading to it's collapse. They rejected western control over their future. The only other option was the Taliban, which granted is not great, but better than what the west was pushing. The US has more failed states under it's belt than it does successes. Hard to believe they were actually trying to help given the track record and the past 20 years.
djohnston 4y ago
Who cares it's what the Afghan people want.

21 points by walrus01 4y ago

ggm 4y ago

In the calculus of US strategic foreign policy, a campaign to bankrupt the soviets by arming the Afghan mujahideen seems to have had a very long tail. Every time I see photos of 1960s Persian and Afghani women I find myself thinking about this.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
> Every time I see photos of 1960s Persian and Afghani women I find myself thinking about this. One cause of what happened is also that, though. A large part, if not the majority, of the population is conservative and did not approve of this "westernisation".
- ggm 4y ago
  Indeed. Many women welcomed Khomeini back from Paris in '79 Nothing is one dimensional.
- yucky 4y ago
  Which raises the question of "who are we to determine what values a society should embrace"? Doesn't that make us cultural imperialists/colonialists?
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Yes, this is trying to impose our ways on others. The thing is that, as we see again and again, it does not work, anyway. Cultural and societal values cannot be imposed by 'foreigners', if anything this only creates a reaction against it and to more conservatism.

DoreenMichele 4y ago

I'm very sad to see this, yet I have mixed feelings about unilaterally condeming it: Yet on Tuesday, the education ministry said its scholars had evaluated the university curriculum and environment, and attendance for girls would be suspended "until a suitable environment" was provided. It added that it would soon provide such a setting and "citizens should not be worried". Prior to Tuesday's announcement, universities had already been operating under discriminatory rules for women since the Taliban takeover in 2021. There were gender segregated entrances and classrooms, and female students could only be taught by women professors or old men. It is the wrong way to handle it, but I have to wonder if there are any legitimate concerns behind some of these moves. I cannot help but think about how women get raped and murdered in war torn countries, women get raped and murdered for trying to urinate or defecate in a field designated for such in places with too much population and too little infrastructure, women get sexually assaulted by coworkers, classmates, etc.

thdespou 4y ago

People in Afganistan, do not want to see progress in their country. Period. They chose this life of fanatism and hatred. They let the Taliban rule. All the money or support in the world cannot change that sadly.

willcipriano 4y ago
Let's not pretend we gave them a better option. To add some color (this isn't the only abuse but the most obvious one, particularly to western audiences): A tactic that the Taliban used to great effect was to lure collition aligned forces by having young boys stand on street corners and when the US backed Afghan police went to rape the child, ambush them. > "The Taliban are sending boys — beautiful boys, handsome boys — to penetrate checkpoints and kill, drug and poison policemen," said Ghulam Sakhi Rogh Lewanai, who was Uruzgan's police chief until he was removed in a security reshuffle in April amid worsening violence.[0] US servicemen have come home with PTSD, not from combat but having to share a hotel with US aligned Afghans and hearing young boys be repeatedly raped in the next room. Those who spoke up were punished.[1] Step into their shoes, a foreign invader installs pedophiles to run your government and rape your sons. You expect them to support it? Personally I'd start building IEDs. [0]https://www.businessinsider.com/afp-taliban-use-honey-trap-boys-to-kill-afghan-police-2016-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/afp-taliban-use-honey-trap-b... [1]https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/american-military-told-troops-to-ignore-afghan-allies-child-sex-abuse-called-bacha-bazi.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/american-militar... [additional reading]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Additional citation: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/dancingboys/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/dancingboys/
throwntoday 4y ago
No, what they chose was to reject the western ideals that are leading to it's collapse. They rejected western control over their future. The only other option was the Taliban, which granted is not great, but better than what the west was pushing. The US has more failed states under it's belt than it does successes. Hard to believe they were actually trying to help given the track record and the past 20 years.

djohnston 4y ago

Who cares it's what the Afghan people want.