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>It feels like everything is broken in the Java web-dev ecosystem, except spring. "Except Spring?" Spring IS the modern Java web-dev ecosystem. You can't writ

by skwirl 4y ago

>It feels like everything is broken in the Java web-dev ecosystem, except spring. "Except Spring?" Spring IS the modern Java web-dev ecosystem. You can't write it off as a small exception. With Spring Boot it is very easy to get something working quickly. It sounds like you may be suffering from the Paradox of Choice when it comes to the broad Java ecosystem(s). For new projects, just pretend nothing exists except Spring Boot and use annotation/java config for dependency management. There's obviously a lot of legacy Java out there, but it's so massively popular that there's an immense amount of greenfield development going on as well. Don't take jobs working on Java EE stuff unless nowhere else will hire you and/or they are paying you a massive amount of money to do it.

KronisLV 4y ago
> It sounds like you may be suffering from the Paradox of Choice when it comes to the broad Java ecosystem(s). For new projects, just pretend nothing exists except Spring Boot and use annotation/java config for dependency management. Spring Boot is passable, as long as what you are trying to do fits within what you're allowed to do and you don't have to dig into the internals too much. Regular Spring is painful, attempting to migrate a project that's been around for close to a decade from Spring to Spring Boot without a rewrite is even worse, especially if it is stuck on an older version of Spring, even worse if you need to go from JDK 8 to JDK 11+. The complexity of Spring and Spring Boot itself is pretty considerable. I wouldn't scoff at anyone using something like Dropwizard for comparatively smaller projects, as I did recently: https://blog.kronis.dev/tutorials/2-4-pidgeot-a-system-for-millions-of-documents-the-application https://blog.kronis.dev/tutorials/2-4-pidgeot-a-system-for-m... In a limited set of circumstances it can be useful to opt for something simpler, that's built on a bunch of other boring, mostly "standard" or at least idiomatic packages. Some might advocate for Quarkus, others for the likes of Vert.X - both are interesting and pretty usable, but perhaps it's a bit too early for either of those. For those interested, ktor might also be worth an exploratory look in non-prod projects (if you like Kotlin too). There is something to also be said about the likes of Ruby and Ruby on Rails, or PHP and Laravel, or .NET and ASP.NET, or maybe Python and Django - sometimes having fewer options can also make you more productive, especially if a lot of ecosystem is grown around those "main" solutions. Perhaps that's an argument in the favor of Spring Boot.
- p2detar 4y ago
  Just wanted to add that I'm currently building and shipping a 60K+ LOC product based on vert.x. I never used Spring or Spring Boot and I personally would like it to stay that way. Vert.x has been such a pleasant surprise to me: the docs are great and the community is quite active.
  - ryloric 4y ago
    How's the performance and DX?

by skwirl 4y ago

KronisLV 4y ago

> It sounds like you may be suffering from the Paradox of Choice when it comes to the broad Java ecosystem(s). For new projects, just pretend nothing exists except Spring Boot and use annotation/java config for dependency management. Spring Boot is passable, as long as what you are trying to do fits within what you're allowed to do and you don't have to dig into the internals too much. Regular Spring is painful, attempting to migrate a project that's been around for close to a decade from Spring to Spring Boot without a rewrite is even worse, especially if it is stuck on an older version of Spring, even worse if you need to go from JDK 8 to JDK 11+. The complexity of Spring and Spring Boot itself is pretty considerable. I wouldn't scoff at anyone using something like Dropwizard for comparatively smaller projects, as I did recently: https://blog.kronis.dev/tutorials/2-4-pidgeot-a-system-for-millions-of-documents-the-application https://blog.kronis.dev/tutorials/2-4-pidgeot-a-system-for-m... In a limited set of circumstances it can be useful to opt for something simpler, that's built on a bunch of other boring, mostly "standard" or at least idiomatic packages. Some might advocate for Quarkus, others for the likes of Vert.X - both are interesting and pretty usable, but perhaps it's a bit too early for either of those. For those interested, ktor might also be worth an exploratory look in non-prod projects (if you like Kotlin too). There is something to also be said about the likes of Ruby and Ruby on Rails, or PHP and Laravel, or .NET and ASP.NET, or maybe Python and Django - sometimes having fewer options can also make you more productive, especially if a lot of ecosystem is grown around those "main" solutions. Perhaps that's an argument in the favor of Spring Boot.

p2detar 4y ago
Just wanted to add that I'm currently building and shipping a 60K+ LOC product based on vert.x. I never used Spring or Spring Boot and I personally would like it to stay that way. Vert.x has been such a pleasant surprise to me: the docs are great and the community is quite active.
- ryloric 4y ago
  How's the performance and DX?