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My brother was on antipsychotics for about 20 years. His compliance was poor. He is homeless now and without treatment. Growing up he would tell me how terribl

My brother was on antipsychotics for about 20 years. His compliance was poor. He is homeless now and without treatment. Growing up he would tell me how terrible the medications were. I believed him, and still do to an extent. However he also identified with his illness and thought the drugs were taking away his special powers. That was a symptom. For those reading who have less experience, they sometimes call that anosognosia or lack of awareness. In the end it's a very existential thing. It's easy to wonder about identity. I had a few people in my life with this sort of illness. I developed a model where medicated, treated, and stable, that is the "normal" them, their identity. However, these people got offended by this, and engaged in behavior I would describe as identifying with symptoms. Acknowledging symptoms, no matter how evident, was tantamount to personal attacks. I think we all have issues with this in our lives. Self awareness and identity is a difficult problem. It's only when it falls far outside of norms, into extremes, that we call it a disorder. It can be very tricky to draw those lines.

jimkleiber 4y ago
I read this and I start to think about how our identities may just be stories to which we've attached, often shortcuts to summarize characteristics of behaviors. I'm thinking of it more in the romantic "friend" vs "lover" buckets, but I think it plays out a lot in the health space as well. > For those reading who have less experience, they sometimes call that anosognosia or lack of awareness. I'm fascinated to learn of this and to read more, thank you.
kdmccormick 4y ago
Yes, this is a big thing I struggled with when I was off meds. Me without meds felt so much more... "me-like" than me on meds. So when someone referred to medicated me as "normal me", it was extremely hurtful. What I had to realize is that even if "me without meds" was an existentially truer version of myself, people did not like me without meds, they did not want to be my friend, nor did they want to give me a job. That's what got me on meds, and yes, it felt really shitty at the time. Years later, I don't feel that way any more. "Me with meds" feels like me, more than ever actually. And, lots of those things I valued about "me without meds" (wit, spontaneity, high energy, creativity) came back over time as I adjusted to being medicated. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to find a med that allows them to get to that happy point. It took good healthcare, several tries, a support network, and (I assume) luck.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
My treatment caused a complete loss of self-identity. In another time, I would have been a shaman. My entire life, I had a deep spiritual connection with wolves. That's gone. All that's left of it is blank wall and confusion. This hurt deeply. I can't even begin to describe how it felt to have everything I knew about myself destroyed. I'm fortunate to have been raised Christian. That hasn't changed and it's been a welcome grounding while I work things out.
- Biganon 4y ago
  You sound extremely brave. Thank you for sharing your story, and merry Christmas in advance
- asveikau 4y ago
  I know a lot of spiritual traditions, especially in the east, talk about loss of self identity as progress. So hard as it was (and it sounds hard!), I hope you are able to have deeper understanding that you might not have had exposure to otherwise.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    Not sure. I feel like I'm fundamentally a different person. Like I was dropped into someone else's body. Someone else was here before me and left a bunch of furniture I keep bumping into. :) But, I know I'm a kinder person than the person before me. Is this spiritual enlightenment? If it is, I might want a refund. :D
bell-cot 4y ago
From years of second-hand accounts, my impression is that my friend's niece finds the in-the-moment experience of life off her meds to be somewhat more emotionally rewarding / rich / "genuine" than life on her meds. (On top of the nasty side-effects of the latter.)
- selectodude 4y ago
  I can empathize to a lesser extent. I’m on pretty high doses of antidepressants to keep myself alive. The world feels dead. I’m not sure that I prefer that to me being dead. But I do it for the people who give a shit about me. Am I going to live past 65? Probably not. But for now, it just the way things are. I’m not psychotic so it’s of course easier to be reasonable about the situation, but it’s never fun to be on drugs like these.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    I was going to chime in to parent mentioning a similar feeling when I was on an antidepressant. Life felt deadened and hollow, I couldn't really experience much of anything, I was doing things and having absolutely no emotional response to them whatsoever. The first time I cried, which happened extremely easily, while coming off of them I felt joy for the ability to feel something again, even if it was clearly an overreaction. 'Delicious' is the word I used to describe it.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  Mania is a hell of a drug. I've done so many amazing things because of it. Life feels dull and slow without it. At the same time, the cost was high. I chose to live without mania. I want to slow down and work on things I want to do, not be driven to do things, no matter how amazing they turned out.
PicassoCTs 4y ago
One of the symptoms can be tremendous creativity. Would you recommend to force treatment upon an artist, because she/he suffers from other side effects? These mental illnesses are adaptions/optimizations to the rise and fall of violence that was normal human history for the longest time. A armed paranoid hobo maybe looking like a maladjusted human being to you now, but in stalingrad, sebreniza or bhakmut, he would be very adapted to his surroundings. All those stress triggered changes had their spoke on the wheel of time. My opinion is that people should be force treated, but only until they reach "sentience" and can decide for themselves, not under any influence. They also should be able to make sentient "wills", specifying condition under which the state is allowed to step in and help them. If somebody wants to return to his mental state, nobody should be allowed to stop them. Human lifes value is not there to be useful, aesthetic pleasing or comfortable for society. Its value is only defined by the person living it.. But then again, i view optimists as mentally sick..
- asveikau 4y ago
  > If somebody wants to return to his mental state, nobody should be allowed to stop them I don't think this works well when clear-cut, unambiguous delusions cause somebody to act on them and harm themselves and others. I do acknowledge it's very hard to know when that is, and people can disagree.
- lazide 4y ago
  And someone like Kanye which just torpedoed more wealth than many people could ever imagine for his family? I take it they should have no say either? At least he won’t be stabbing someone in an alley in 10 years - probably.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > just torpedoed more wealth than many people could ever imagine for his family You know, I believe that Kanye may have significant mental illness, but... An argument primarily from an economic angle makes me uncomfortable. On paper, I am not maximizing economic value right now-- but I'm pretty sure I'm well adjusted and happy with my (seemingly economically irrational) choices.

jimkleiber 4y ago

I read this and I start to think about how our identities may just be stories to which we've attached, often shortcuts to summarize characteristics of behaviors. I'm thinking of it more in the romantic "friend" vs "lover" buckets, but I think it plays out a lot in the health space as well. > For those reading who have less experience, they sometimes call that anosognosia or lack of awareness. I'm fascinated to learn of this and to read more, thank you.

kdmccormick 4y ago

Yes, this is a big thing I struggled with when I was off meds. Me without meds felt so much more... "me-like" than me on meds. So when someone referred to medicated me as "normal me", it was extremely hurtful. What I had to realize is that even if "me without meds" was an existentially truer version of myself, people did not like me without meds, they did not want to be my friend, nor did they want to give me a job. That's what got me on meds, and yes, it felt really shitty at the time. Years later, I don't feel that way any more. "Me with meds" feels like me, more than ever actually. And, lots of those things I valued about "me without meds" (wit, spontaneity, high energy, creativity) came back over time as I adjusted to being medicated. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to find a med that allows them to get to that happy point. It took good healthcare, several tries, a support network, and (I assume) luck.

kayodelycaon 4y ago

My treatment caused a complete loss of self-identity. In another time, I would have been a shaman. My entire life, I had a deep spiritual connection with wolves. That's gone. All that's left of it is blank wall and confusion. This hurt deeply. I can't even begin to describe how it felt to have everything I knew about myself destroyed. I'm fortunate to have been raised Christian. That hasn't changed and it's been a welcome grounding while I work things out.

Biganon 4y ago
You sound extremely brave. Thank you for sharing your story, and merry Christmas in advance
asveikau 4y ago
I know a lot of spiritual traditions, especially in the east, talk about loss of self identity as progress. So hard as it was (and it sounds hard!), I hope you are able to have deeper understanding that you might not have had exposure to otherwise.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  Not sure. I feel like I'm fundamentally a different person. Like I was dropped into someone else's body. Someone else was here before me and left a bunch of furniture I keep bumping into. :) But, I know I'm a kinder person than the person before me. Is this spiritual enlightenment? If it is, I might want a refund. :D

bell-cot 4y ago

From years of second-hand accounts, my impression is that my friend's niece finds the in-the-moment experience of life off her meds to be somewhat more emotionally rewarding / rich / "genuine" than life on her meds. (On top of the nasty side-effects of the latter.)

selectodude 4y ago
I can empathize to a lesser extent. I’m on pretty high doses of antidepressants to keep myself alive. The world feels dead. I’m not sure that I prefer that to me being dead. But I do it for the people who give a shit about me. Am I going to live past 65? Probably not. But for now, it just the way things are. I’m not psychotic so it’s of course easier to be reasonable about the situation, but it’s never fun to be on drugs like these.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  I was going to chime in to parent mentioning a similar feeling when I was on an antidepressant. Life felt deadened and hollow, I couldn't really experience much of anything, I was doing things and having absolutely no emotional response to them whatsoever. The first time I cried, which happened extremely easily, while coming off of them I felt joy for the ability to feel something again, even if it was clearly an overreaction. 'Delicious' is the word I used to describe it.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
Mania is a hell of a drug. I've done so many amazing things because of it. Life feels dull and slow without it. At the same time, the cost was high. I chose to live without mania. I want to slow down and work on things I want to do, not be driven to do things, no matter how amazing they turned out.

PicassoCTs 4y ago

One of the symptoms can be tremendous creativity. Would you recommend to force treatment upon an artist, because she/he suffers from other side effects? These mental illnesses are adaptions/optimizations to the rise and fall of violence that was normal human history for the longest time. A armed paranoid hobo maybe looking like a maladjusted human being to you now, but in stalingrad, sebreniza or bhakmut, he would be very adapted to his surroundings. All those stress triggered changes had their spoke on the wheel of time. My opinion is that people should be force treated, but only until they reach "sentience" and can decide for themselves, not under any influence. They also should be able to make sentient "wills", specifying condition under which the state is allowed to step in and help them. If somebody wants to return to his mental state, nobody should be allowed to stop them. Human lifes value is not there to be useful, aesthetic pleasing or comfortable for society. Its value is only defined by the person living it.. But then again, i view optimists as mentally sick..

asveikau 4y ago
> If somebody wants to return to his mental state, nobody should be allowed to stop them I don't think this works well when clear-cut, unambiguous delusions cause somebody to act on them and harm themselves and others. I do acknowledge it's very hard to know when that is, and people can disagree.
lazide 4y ago
And someone like Kanye which just torpedoed more wealth than many people could ever imagine for his family? I take it they should have no say either? At least he won’t be stabbing someone in an alley in 10 years - probably.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > just torpedoed more wealth than many people could ever imagine for his family You know, I believe that Kanye may have significant mental illness, but... An argument primarily from an economic angle makes me uncomfortable. On paper, I am not maximizing economic value right now-- but I'm pretty sure I'm well adjusted and happy with my (seemingly economically irrational) choices.