4 ms·

That said: time to market with java is also quite nice and one selling point for it.

lowbloodsugar 4y ago
I think people confuse "I don't personally know Java" with "Java has a slow time to market." Sure, for people that don't know Java, learning Java to that level is definitely going to cost you time.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  I have mentored coworkers who didn’t know Java on how to use Java at work. I would definitely rather hand a random person Java to learn for work than others.
- xtracto 4y ago
  I've worked with plenty of languages [1] since 2001 when I entered the job market . Recently I've been doing coding interviews for developers for a Java shop who theoretically knew Java. It pains me to see what they need to do to implement what I ask them (simple tic-tac-toe game) using Java. Something that in Ruby would be: puts(row.join('|')), in Python would be: print('|'.join(row)) in JavaScript would be console.log(row.join('|')) in Java requires either a StringBuilder monster or a third party library [2] to make it bearable. And like that, there are other crazy things that make me glad I don't have to write Java anymore (I worked 4 years with it in total in the early 2000s). [1] (VB6, VB.net, C#, Java, PHP, ActionScript3, C++, JavaScript, TypeScript Python, Ruby, 8086 asm, top of my head). [2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6622974/convert-string-to-comma-separated-string-in-java https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6622974/convert-string-t... StringUtils or TextUtils
  - fsdjkflsjfsoij 4y ago
    String has had a static join method since Java 8 which was released almost 10 years ago. Your example would just be String.join("|", row).
    - lowbloodsugar 4y ago
      Right? I mean I think what GP is saying that they aren't qualified to interview Java programmers? Hasn't used it since 2010??? Yet they had the hubris to think that they were qualified, and used the interviewees lack of knowledge to confirm his priors about Java?
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    2004 Java is a little different from 2022 Java....
topspin 4y ago
Java was designed to, and still delivers, rapid development. Is it possible for java developers to entangle their work through poor choices such that development becomes slow? Absolutely; the java ecosystem has accumulated a number of such tar pits. Competent java developers avoid these. Unfortunately incompetent java developers abound. The world is full of java developers that haven't learned anything new since Java 6 appeared 16 years ago. The above argument is also used by C++ advocates; C++ is great if you know what you're doing and apply the solutions provided in modern iterations. Ironic since java was Sun's 'fix' for C++. Given the rapid rise of competitors to C++ I believe that argument isn't working terribly well.

I think people confuse "I don't personally know Java" with "Java has a slow time to market." Sure, for people that don't know Java, learning Java to that level is definitely going to cost you time.

vineyardmike 4y ago
I have mentored coworkers who didn’t know Java on how to use Java at work. I would definitely rather hand a random person Java to learn for work than others.
xtracto 4y ago
I've worked with plenty of languages [1] since 2001 when I entered the job market . Recently I've been doing coding interviews for developers for a Java shop who theoretically knew Java. It pains me to see what they need to do to implement what I ask them (simple tic-tac-toe game) using Java. Something that in Ruby would be: puts(row.join('|')), in Python would be: print('|'.join(row)) in JavaScript would be console.log(row.join('|')) in Java requires either a StringBuilder monster or a third party library [2] to make it bearable. And like that, there are other crazy things that make me glad I don't have to write Java anymore (I worked 4 years with it in total in the early 2000s). [1] (VB6, VB.net, C#, Java, PHP, ActionScript3, C++, JavaScript, TypeScript Python, Ruby, 8086 asm, top of my head). [2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6622974/convert-string-to-comma-separated-string-in-java https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6622974/convert-string-t... StringUtils or TextUtils
- fsdjkflsjfsoij 4y ago
  String has had a static join method since Java 8 which was released almost 10 years ago. Your example would just be String.join("|", row).
  - lowbloodsugar 4y ago
    Right? I mean I think what GP is saying that they aren't qualified to interview Java programmers? Hasn't used it since 2010??? Yet they had the hubris to think that they were qualified, and used the interviewees lack of knowledge to confirm his priors about Java?
- pjmlp 4y ago
  2004 Java is a little different from 2022 Java....

topspin 4y ago

Java was designed to, and still delivers, rapid development. Is it possible for java developers to entangle their work through poor choices such that development becomes slow? Absolutely; the java ecosystem has accumulated a number of such tar pits. Competent java developers avoid these. Unfortunately incompetent java developers abound. The world is full of java developers that haven't learned anything new since Java 6 appeared 16 years ago. The above argument is also used by C++ advocates; C++ is great if you know what you're doing and apply the solutions provided in modern iterations. Ironic since java was Sun's 'fix' for C++. Given the rapid rise of competitors to C++ I believe that argument isn't working terribly well.