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And as a German I get really infuriated about von der Leyen torpedoing these efforts over a personal vendetta, like the conservative she is: https://www.euract

And as a German I get really infuriated about von der Leyen torpedoing these efforts over a personal vendetta, like the conservative she is: https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/wolf-that-killed-von-der-leyens-pony-to-be-shot/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/wolf-... > The German region of Hannover has issued an official shooting permit for a wolf that killed one of the ponies of European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen, who said earlier that the EU executive will reevaluate wolves’ protected status. A wolf is doing wolf things but the president of the European Commission cant have that and wants to change the wolves' protected status. I hate this woman so much and I am sorry we inflicted her upon Europe.

zwieback 4y ago
She should recuse herself and stay out of it. Wolf/farmer conflict isn't black and white, though, I have sympathy for keepers of livestock as well. Here in the US it flares up all the time and simplistic romanticized arguments on either side are not helpful.
- tpm 4y ago
  Here in Europe farmers get generous reparations from the state when wolves or bears kill their livestock. Many wolves (and also eagles and hawks) are illegally killed anyway, probably because hunters and farmers consider them enemies.
  - gytoru 4y ago
    Farmers only get reparations for proven wolf kills, meaning you need to find the leftovers, and have them DNA-tested. That seems to work out for (as I've heard) less than half of the cases where lifestock is killed, usually no body is found. There are also cases of a herd getting paniced, trampling down a fence, falling off a cliff, or ending up on a highway. In those cases proving wolf or bear involvement is even less likely.
    - pvaldes 4y ago
      > Farmers only get reparations for proven wolf kills, meaning you need to find the leftovers, and have them DNA-tested. Of course. And this is done by two solid reasons. 1) Because farmers unavoidably will try to game the system to optimize the money obtained, until sucking your reserves dry. Europe could tell you about thousands of cases of corruption in this subsides. We could write a book with the tricks and plots. 2) Because a surprisingly large amount of those "wolf kills" are in fact killed by dogs. Feral and also domestic dogs. How do we know it? doing DNA tests. If your dog kills a cow, why should I be blackmailed to pay for it? Is your responsibility, not mine. Feed your f*ng dog, don't let it roam around at night, pay insurance, and keep it lashed when close to my animals. Even more, do you know who are the owners of those dogs in thousands of cases?, the same farmers that cry wolf. Everybody knows it in the village, nobody will talk because... hey! I have a very ill sheep and the vet bills would be expensive, can I borrow your mastiff? the morons in the city will gave us free gold!
  - DrThunder 4y ago
- splistud 4y ago
  As a rancher in Texas, I have more problems with Cougars than wolves. Neither or an issue really. Wild pigs and coyotes are a problem and must be managed. Water and air quality (much improved since I was a child 40 years ago) and the depredations of apex predators (moronic politicians guided by ignorant electorate) are the real killers. That said, there are places in N America where the reintroduction of wolves can be an issue if the numbers introduced are too zealous (too many for their natural food source).
yetanotherloser 4y ago
We should really be encouraging wolves in areas with too many bureaucrats, rather than areas with ponies. I appreciate most of these areas are urban but foxes do fine there, so why not wolf packs?
- culi 4y ago
  In North America there have been 2 wolf fatalities in the past century. Sorry but I don't think wolves are a solution to keeping the bureaucrat population down
  - someweirdperson 4y ago
    With a bit of genetic engineering though...
  - yetanotherloser 4y ago
    As far as I know they have to be pretty desperate to eat people. Poor things. Unfairly maligned.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  Straw man fallacy. Nobody is asking to reintroduce packs of wild wolves in a big city.
  - yetanotherloser 4y ago
    I'm making an amused speculation rather than trying to represent someone else as having said it, and while I'm not seriously advocating it I wouldn't mind giving it a try. So no, not the straw man fallacy.
- DrThunder 4y ago
goethes_kind 4y ago
As a German for once I agree with her. Sorry but people introducing wolves and in such densely populated areas is just stupid. The wolf is already preying of domestic livestock. How is that not a problem? I understand the appeal for rewilding, but we just do not have the land for it and the people behind these programs do not seem to give two shits about the impact it has on the actual people living nearby.
DrThunder 4y ago

zwieback 4y ago

She should recuse herself and stay out of it. Wolf/farmer conflict isn't black and white, though, I have sympathy for keepers of livestock as well. Here in the US it flares up all the time and simplistic romanticized arguments on either side are not helpful.

tpm 4y ago
Here in Europe farmers get generous reparations from the state when wolves or bears kill their livestock. Many wolves (and also eagles and hawks) are illegally killed anyway, probably because hunters and farmers consider them enemies.
- gytoru 4y ago
  Farmers only get reparations for proven wolf kills, meaning you need to find the leftovers, and have them DNA-tested. That seems to work out for (as I've heard) less than half of the cases where lifestock is killed, usually no body is found. There are also cases of a herd getting paniced, trampling down a fence, falling off a cliff, or ending up on a highway. In those cases proving wolf or bear involvement is even less likely.
  - pvaldes 4y ago
    > Farmers only get reparations for proven wolf kills, meaning you need to find the leftovers, and have them DNA-tested. Of course. And this is done by two solid reasons. 1) Because farmers unavoidably will try to game the system to optimize the money obtained, until sucking your reserves dry. Europe could tell you about thousands of cases of corruption in this subsides. We could write a book with the tricks and plots. 2) Because a surprisingly large amount of those "wolf kills" are in fact killed by dogs. Feral and also domestic dogs. How do we know it? doing DNA tests. If your dog kills a cow, why should I be blackmailed to pay for it? Is your responsibility, not mine. Feed your f*ng dog, don't let it roam around at night, pay insurance, and keep it lashed when close to my animals. Even more, do you know who are the owners of those dogs in thousands of cases?, the same farmers that cry wolf. Everybody knows it in the village, nobody will talk because... hey! I have a very ill sheep and the vet bills would be expensive, can I borrow your mastiff? the morons in the city will gave us free gold!
- DrThunder 4y ago
splistud 4y ago
As a rancher in Texas, I have more problems with Cougars than wolves. Neither or an issue really. Wild pigs and coyotes are a problem and must be managed. Water and air quality (much improved since I was a child 40 years ago) and the depredations of apex predators (moronic politicians guided by ignorant electorate) are the real killers. That said, there are places in N America where the reintroduction of wolves can be an issue if the numbers introduced are too zealous (too many for their natural food source).

yetanotherloser 4y ago

We should really be encouraging wolves in areas with too many bureaucrats, rather than areas with ponies. I appreciate most of these areas are urban but foxes do fine there, so why not wolf packs?

culi 4y ago
In North America there have been 2 wolf fatalities in the past century. Sorry but I don't think wolves are a solution to keeping the bureaucrat population down
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  With a bit of genetic engineering though...
- yetanotherloser 4y ago
  As far as I know they have to be pretty desperate to eat people. Poor things. Unfairly maligned.
pvaldes 4y ago
Straw man fallacy. Nobody is asking to reintroduce packs of wild wolves in a big city.
- yetanotherloser 4y ago
  I'm making an amused speculation rather than trying to represent someone else as having said it, and while I'm not seriously advocating it I wouldn't mind giving it a try. So no, not the straw man fallacy.
DrThunder 4y ago

goethes_kind 4y ago

As a German for once I agree with her. Sorry but people introducing wolves and in such densely populated areas is just stupid. The wolf is already preying of domestic livestock. How is that not a problem? I understand the appeal for rewilding, but we just do not have the land for it and the people behind these programs do not seem to give two shits about the impact it has on the actual people living nearby.

DrThunder 4y ago