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100% legit. In addition, the female gaze DOES exist. Has the creator never been to a gym full of attractive men with fit bodies, and observed women oogling at t

100% legit. In addition, the female gaze DOES exist. Has the creator never been to a gym full of attractive men with fit bodies, and observed women oogling at the men? Has the creator never observed how straight women will oogle at men with handsome faces? There's a show called "The Sex Lives of College Girls" where objectively average/cute women are objectifying and sexualizing relatively attractive men. There's a lot of modern shows like this, where women of all attractive levels are dating handsome men which is a form of "gazing".

maxbond 4y ago
I'm sure the female gaze exists, but it's worth considering that straight men often look attractive and even seek to attract women to impress other straight men (so sometimes the "dudes at the gym" are really subject to a weird inverted male gaze), and reality TV shows are so distorted and deceptively edited and we really can't cite them uncritically.
- ablatt89 4y ago
  And women use makeup and look good to attract men, and there's no shame in it. I don't think there's any shame in attempting to look attractive, as if it's shallow. But that's aside the point, being that there's some implication that women don't objectify men via some "gaze" when clearly, they do. The representation of female attraction to men is done in different formats.
- Manuel_D 4y ago
  Women also definitely try to impress other women via the status of their mates. The conversation about male vs. female gaze isn't about who's gazing (both are) but rather what they're looking for when they gaze at the other sex.
bogwog 4y ago
I'm guessing you skipped the intro portion of the OP, since that's not the "gaze" this is about.
- ablatt89 4y ago
  The "gaze" is essentially about a male "checking out" a woman, and a woman desiring this gaze from the male. My argument is clear, that women DO gaze at men, and men DO appreciate the gaze and many are seeking the gaze from women.
  - PierceJoy 4y ago
    > The "gaze" is essentially about a male "checking out" a woman, and a woman desiring this gaze from the male. No, that is completely incorrect. Watch the intro video again.
  - ablatt89 4y ago
    Just because you say it's wrong, doesn't mean it's wrong. Let's use Stanford's Plato pages as a definition of the gaze: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-aesthetics/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-aesthetics/ "The phrase “male gaze” refers to the frequent framing of objects of visual art so that the viewer is situated in a “masculine” position of appreciation. By interpreting objects of art as diverse as paintings of the nude and Hollywood films, these theorists have concluded that women depicted in art are standardly placed as objects of attraction" This clearly aligns with my definition of the gaze as essentially male attraction to women. Fine, you can add some additional constraints that it's positions that the woman that conform to "masculine" definitions of beauty, but I certainly would disagree that it's necessarily negative for a female in that position or as a whole. Would you argue that women who produce sexualized content like from OnlyFans or Twitch streamers wearing scantily clad outfits, are not part of the male gaze? It's intellectually dishonest to keep saying, "it's different" despite not addressing any of my statements.
    - PierceJoy 4y ago
      You started out saying that women staring at men in the gym is the female gaze. That is wrong, because the male gaze isn't about the actual act of gazing. It's about perspective. Your whole argument is centred on the act of gazing, not perspective in art. Let me give an example. I'm sitting on park bench gazing at a woman walking by me. I am a male, and I am gazing, but that it not the male gaze.

maxbond 4y ago

I'm sure the female gaze exists, but it's worth considering that straight men often look attractive and even seek to attract women to impress other straight men (so sometimes the "dudes at the gym" are really subject to a weird inverted male gaze), and reality TV shows are so distorted and deceptively edited and we really can't cite them uncritically.

ablatt89 4y ago
And women use makeup and look good to attract men, and there's no shame in it. I don't think there's any shame in attempting to look attractive, as if it's shallow. But that's aside the point, being that there's some implication that women don't objectify men via some "gaze" when clearly, they do. The representation of female attraction to men is done in different formats.
Manuel_D 4y ago
Women also definitely try to impress other women via the status of their mates. The conversation about male vs. female gaze isn't about who's gazing (both are) but rather what they're looking for when they gaze at the other sex.

bogwog 4y ago

I'm guessing you skipped the intro portion of the OP, since that's not the "gaze" this is about.

ablatt89 4y ago
The "gaze" is essentially about a male "checking out" a woman, and a woman desiring this gaze from the male. My argument is clear, that women DO gaze at men, and men DO appreciate the gaze and many are seeking the gaze from women.
- PierceJoy 4y ago
  > The "gaze" is essentially about a male "checking out" a woman, and a woman desiring this gaze from the male. No, that is completely incorrect. Watch the intro video again.
- ablatt89 4y ago
  Just because you say it's wrong, doesn't mean it's wrong. Let's use Stanford's Plato pages as a definition of the gaze: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-aesthetics/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-aesthetics/ "The phrase “male gaze” refers to the frequent framing of objects of visual art so that the viewer is situated in a “masculine” position of appreciation. By interpreting objects of art as diverse as paintings of the nude and Hollywood films, these theorists have concluded that women depicted in art are standardly placed as objects of attraction" This clearly aligns with my definition of the gaze as essentially male attraction to women. Fine, you can add some additional constraints that it's positions that the woman that conform to "masculine" definitions of beauty, but I certainly would disagree that it's necessarily negative for a female in that position or as a whole. Would you argue that women who produce sexualized content like from OnlyFans or Twitch streamers wearing scantily clad outfits, are not part of the male gaze? It's intellectually dishonest to keep saying, "it's different" despite not addressing any of my statements.
  - PierceJoy 4y ago
    You started out saying that women staring at men in the gym is the female gaze. That is wrong, because the male gaze isn't about the actual act of gazing. It's about perspective. Your whole argument is centred on the act of gazing, not perspective in art. Let me give an example. I'm sitting on park bench gazing at a woman walking by me. I am a male, and I am gazing, but that it not the male gaze.