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I feel the same way. How do the SETI people explain this away and justify their search? One light year is tiny, I think it would take an incredibly generous D

I feel the same way. How do the SETI people explain this away and justify their search? One light year is tiny, I think it would take an incredibly generous Drake equation estimate to make that contain intelligent life. Same for 100 light years too. But I lean towards pessimistic Drake equation values. Life is even more rare and precious the more I dig into the equation. > The true stellar density near the Sun is estimated as 0.004 stars per cubic light year, or 0.14 stars pc−3. > There are around 60,000 stars within 100 light-years, and the same again with 100-200 light-years, and then the numbers fall quickly. By the time we're 1,000 light-years out, there are fewer than 8,000 stars and, at 1,300 light-years, fewer than 5,000 stars.

throw1234651234 4y ago
There are other techno-signatures to look for: Dyson swarms (marked by irregular dimming). Infinitely more powerful transmitters - i.e. irregular pulsars. Oumuamua type fly-bys. "Unnatural" gasses in atmospheres. All purely theoretical, of course. As far as we know, we might not even notice life on Alpha Centauri planets 4ly away.
- m4rtink 4y ago
  I think a big Orion drive powered spaceship flight profile would be widely noticeable. Like, nature rarely produces hundreds of sequential nuclear detonations in deep space in quick succession, possibly perfectly matching high energy transfer orbits. Just not sure what would the other party thing about builders of such craft. On the other hand, its clear what would they think about anyone running a Nuclear Salt Water Rocket - eq. riding continuous fission detonation for minutes or hours! They would definitely think they are batshit insane! :D
pharke 4y ago
I would have to assume that they know this and are in fact only looking for messages that are purposefully sent at very high power. It's also why they favor listening at the hydrogen line since transmissions at that frequency stand the best chance of penetrating through cosmic dust, i.e. you would only use that frequency if you were intentionally trying to transmit across interstellar distances. I think they don't popularize the downsides of a radio search since it could threaten their already tenuous funding. Basically, they have to be optimistic in order to maintain the pittance of a budget given to them which allows us an extremely small chance at detecting a purposefully sent signal if we happen to be in the right place at the right time and listening on the right frequency pointed in the right direction, etc. In order to do SETI right we really need radio telescopes in solar orbit far away from the Earth and enough of them so that they can cover all of the nearby stars or other likely directions for signals to originate from. The only way we're going to get there is if space launches continue to become a lot cheaper. Fingers crossed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_line
- Mistletoe 4y ago
  For me it boils down to- would an advanced civilization beam out a very strong locating signal on purpose? They would have to be very certain they were the baddest strongest civilization in the galaxy. I can’t think of a way intelligence and that idea go together.
  - friend_and_foe 4y ago
    With one single data point, we presume that life is ubiquitous in the universe and that intelligent civilizations probably exist in more than one place, yet we assume that everyone else is scared to give away their position, even though we aren't. If we can presume intelligent life is out there even though up to now we only know of ourselves, why not presume that that life behaves like us in at least this one way? Seems paradoxical to assume differently, no?
    - Mistletoe 4y ago
      I don’t think we are that intelligent obviously. When I watch the news this is confirmed. And when we send out a “look here and come plunder” beacon it is confirmed as well. We just exited the campfire stage a hundred years ago or so. An alien civilization could be millions or billions of years ahead of us with weapons that we can’t even imagine.

throw1234651234 4y ago

There are other techno-signatures to look for: Dyson swarms (marked by irregular dimming). Infinitely more powerful transmitters - i.e. irregular pulsars. Oumuamua type fly-bys. "Unnatural" gasses in atmospheres. All purely theoretical, of course. As far as we know, we might not even notice life on Alpha Centauri planets 4ly away.

m4rtink 4y ago
I think a big Orion drive powered spaceship flight profile would be widely noticeable. Like, nature rarely produces hundreds of sequential nuclear detonations in deep space in quick succession, possibly perfectly matching high energy transfer orbits. Just not sure what would the other party thing about builders of such craft. On the other hand, its clear what would they think about anyone running a Nuclear Salt Water Rocket - eq. riding continuous fission detonation for minutes or hours! They would definitely think they are batshit insane! :D

pharke 4y ago

I would have to assume that they know this and are in fact only looking for messages that are purposefully sent at very high power. It's also why they favor listening at the hydrogen line since transmissions at that frequency stand the best chance of penetrating through cosmic dust, i.e. you would only use that frequency if you were intentionally trying to transmit across interstellar distances. I think they don't popularize the downsides of a radio search since it could threaten their already tenuous funding. Basically, they have to be optimistic in order to maintain the pittance of a budget given to them which allows us an extremely small chance at detecting a purposefully sent signal if we happen to be in the right place at the right time and listening on the right frequency pointed in the right direction, etc. In order to do SETI right we really need radio telescopes in solar orbit far away from the Earth and enough of them so that they can cover all of the nearby stars or other likely directions for signals to originate from. The only way we're going to get there is if space launches continue to become a lot cheaper. Fingers crossed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_line

Mistletoe 4y ago
For me it boils down to- would an advanced civilization beam out a very strong locating signal on purpose? They would have to be very certain they were the baddest strongest civilization in the galaxy. I can’t think of a way intelligence and that idea go together.
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  With one single data point, we presume that life is ubiquitous in the universe and that intelligent civilizations probably exist in more than one place, yet we assume that everyone else is scared to give away their position, even though we aren't. If we can presume intelligent life is out there even though up to now we only know of ourselves, why not presume that that life behaves like us in at least this one way? Seems paradoxical to assume differently, no?
  - Mistletoe 4y ago
    I don’t think we are that intelligent obviously. When I watch the news this is confirmed. And when we send out a “look here and come plunder” beacon it is confirmed as well. We just exited the campfire stage a hundred years ago or so. An alien civilization could be millions or billions of years ahead of us with weapons that we can’t even imagine.