4 ms·

First off, the retirement age is ludicrous anyway. I believe it is now 67 for men in the UK. The average years of good health in this country is 63, but in some

by rcarr 4y ago

First off, the retirement age is ludicrous anyway. I believe it is now 67 for men in the UK. The average years of good health in this country is 63, but in some parts of the country is as low as 55 [1]. Who wants to essentially work until they get sick then keel over and die? People are wising up to the fact it’s absolutely ridiculous and getting out and enjoying life while they still can rather than putting more money in the pocket of some shareholders. There is no community solidarity when your supposed leaders have been raking in over 20%+ pay rises for years whilst worker pay has declined in real terms, especially when inflation is now what it is. It’s an absolute disgrace what they are trying to fob off nurses and other public workers with atm. Not to mention the fact that working conditions are dire because some MBA has decided all quality of life metrics are irrelevant and all that matters is the bottom line. Good on the people who are dropping out. Make the exploiters squirm. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/05/health-gets-in-the-way-of-work-in-grimsby https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/05/health-gets...

leereeves 4y ago
> Good on the people who are dropping out Yeah, I'd like to see an occasional article describing the same facts as an "opportunity abundance" instead of a "labor shortage". Isn't anyone in the media or government on the side of working people? From a worker's perspective, having lots of available jobs and the leverage to negotiate for better pay seems like a good thing, especially after decades of decreases in real worker pay.
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  > Isn't anyone in the media or government on the side of working people? Only when it's profitable.
- VLM 4y ago
  > lots of available jobs and the leverage to negotiate for better pay The market is always portrayed as efficient money-for-time but reality is the market is often based around risk minimization and pounding square pegs into round holes and "proving" there's no one available for our immigration or other government program paperwork. Plenty of openings are posted with no intention of filling them.
- randomdata 4y ago
  A shortage occurs when the buyer (in the case of labour, the employer) is prevented from paying more. While there are certain labour segments, healthcare in particular, where government often prevents buyers from paying more, there is no real constraint on the general labour pool in this regard. This means that the only reason there is a shortage is because labour is choosing to not charge higher rates for their work. When the media/government states that there is a labour shortage they are saying: "Hey workers, charge more already!" If that's not pro-labour, I don't know what is.
  - pseudo0 4y ago
    This isn't how governments or corporations define a labor shortage. Their working definition appears to be "businesses can't find workers at the (low) price point they previously could." This is typically then used as justification for undermining workers through increased immigration rates, temporary foreign worker programs, raising the retirement age, and other policy interventions that benefit the shareholding class over workers.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      That's not how anyone else defines shortage, though. It literally contradicts the meaning of shortage. So, when the message is spread to the people they are going to take from it that they aren't charging enough, even if that wasn't the original intent of the message. And, indeed, claims of a labour shortage do end up met with higher labour prices.
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  While I agree with you that there are potential upsides, the problem is that this shift has happened so incredibly rapidly that markets and policies haven't had a chance to adapt. The boomer retirement wave has been anticipated for a while, and it was happening pre-COVID, but the pandemic supercharged things. While I've not personally dug into the numbers, the reporting I've come across suggests decent portion of the inflation we've seen wasn't a result of labour shortages leading to wage spirals and supply shocks. That inflation then destroys any gains made due to salary increases.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Isn't anyone in the media or government on the side of working people? Definitely not. Here in the EU some newspapers published articles saying "the hyper inflation is caused by workers earning too high wages, pushing the prices up. So if we cut down on wage growth, and we cut down on unemployment benefits to force people to take any job, we can solve this" It's definitely not caused by opportunistic companies and conglomerates that compete on who can raise prices the fastest, seeing massive profits and shareholder returns in this market, especially in the energy sector. /s

by rcarr 4y ago

leereeves 4y ago

> Good on the people who are dropping out Yeah, I'd like to see an occasional article describing the same facts as an "opportunity abundance" instead of a "labor shortage". Isn't anyone in the media or government on the side of working people? From a worker's perspective, having lots of available jobs and the leverage to negotiate for better pay seems like a good thing, especially after decades of decreases in real worker pay.

genocidicbunny 4y ago
> Isn't anyone in the media or government on the side of working people? Only when it's profitable.
VLM 4y ago
> lots of available jobs and the leverage to negotiate for better pay The market is always portrayed as efficient money-for-time but reality is the market is often based around risk minimization and pounding square pegs into round holes and "proving" there's no one available for our immigration or other government program paperwork. Plenty of openings are posted with no intention of filling them.
randomdata 4y ago
A shortage occurs when the buyer (in the case of labour, the employer) is prevented from paying more. While there are certain labour segments, healthcare in particular, where government often prevents buyers from paying more, there is no real constraint on the general labour pool in this regard. This means that the only reason there is a shortage is because labour is choosing to not charge higher rates for their work. When the media/government states that there is a labour shortage they are saying: "Hey workers, charge more already!" If that's not pro-labour, I don't know what is.
- pseudo0 4y ago
  This isn't how governments or corporations define a labor shortage. Their working definition appears to be "businesses can't find workers at the (low) price point they previously could." This is typically then used as justification for undermining workers through increased immigration rates, temporary foreign worker programs, raising the retirement age, and other policy interventions that benefit the shareholding class over workers.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    That's not how anyone else defines shortage, though. It literally contradicts the meaning of shortage. So, when the message is spread to the people they are going to take from it that they aren't charging enough, even if that wasn't the original intent of the message. And, indeed, claims of a labour shortage do end up met with higher labour prices.
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
While I agree with you that there are potential upsides, the problem is that this shift has happened so incredibly rapidly that markets and policies haven't had a chance to adapt. The boomer retirement wave has been anticipated for a while, and it was happening pre-COVID, but the pandemic supercharged things. While I've not personally dug into the numbers, the reporting I've come across suggests decent portion of the inflation we've seen wasn't a result of labour shortages leading to wage spirals and supply shocks. That inflation then destroys any gains made due to salary increases.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Isn't anyone in the media or government on the side of working people? Definitely not. Here in the EU some newspapers published articles saying "the hyper inflation is caused by workers earning too high wages, pushing the prices up. So if we cut down on wage growth, and we cut down on unemployment benefits to force people to take any job, we can solve this" It's definitely not caused by opportunistic companies and conglomerates that compete on who can raise prices the fastest, seeing massive profits and shareholder returns in this market, especially in the energy sector. /s