4 ms·

Switzerland Plans to Restrict the Use of Electric Cars During the Energy Crisis

25 points by mikece 4y ago

cs702 4y ago
...And technologically speaking, they'll have the option of doing it remotely.
- secretsatan 4y ago
  Where does it say that? AFAIK these will be voluntary measures.
  - cs702 4y ago
    The software necessary for remotely disabling vehicle use is already present in every EV. Whether the state can and will choose to use that software, now or in the future, is a separate question.
    - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
      Not to mention every public charging post has a data connection to meter things; I wouldn't be surprised if private ones do too, at least the higher capacity ones. Regular plugs won't, but they're very slow charging relatively (and thus won't have as high an impact on the grid) I mean one thing they could also do is just lower the max charging capacity, or shape it according to current capacity.
    - secretsatan 4y ago
      It’s pretty much present in every modern car, but in a non paranoid world, what will probably happen is the police will just stop them on the road
  - starkd 4y ago
    Voluntary at first. It could easily become mandatory as the grid gets more and more strained from the increased usage.
lettergram 4y ago
It’ll be real fun during the next set of lockdowns when the government disables all non-essential peoples vehicles. A democracy functions under freedom of movement, speech, self-defense, self-reliance, etc If the people can’t move, are censored, can’t support themselves and must support the government… you’re not free or in a democracy.
- secretsatan 4y ago
  Where are you people getting this idea that they will shut things down remotely, it’s not mentioned anywhere in this article, the sources, or official pages
- mbg721 4y ago
  A handy hack for getting around pesky legal protections of human rights is to realize that while the rights themselves are protected, the levers people apply to them in everyday practice are not. So you can just selectively outlaw levers.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  "you’re not free or in a democracy. " Depends. People could vote against emergency laws now, but since most people are ok with that mechanism, it is democratic. And I say that as someone who is not ok with those laws. But I can accept that the majority thinks otherwise. And in general, switzerland with their tradition of direct democracy and consensus is certainly more democratic than most other states.
- flanked-evergl 4y ago
  > A democracy functions under freedom of movement, speech, self-defense, self-reliance, etc Not to nit pick, but while I'm picking nits. What you refer to is liberal democracy. Karl Popper explained this very well in his book Conjectures And Refutations: > The difference between a democracy and a tyranny is that under a democracy the government can be got rid of without bloodshed; under a tyranny it cannot. > Democracy as such cannot confer any benefits upon the citizen and it should not be expected to do so. In fact democracy can do nothing—only the citizens of the democracy can act (including, of course, those citizens who comprise the government). Democracy provides no more than a framework within which the citizens may act in a more or less organized and coherent way. > We are democrats, not because the majority is always right, but because democratic traditions are the least evil ones of which we know. If the majority (or ‘public opinion’) decides in favour of tyranny, a democrat need not therefore suppose that some fatal inconsistency in his views has been revealed. He will realize, rather, that the democratic tradition in his country was not strong enough. If people in Switzerland choose a government that restricts their movement, this is what they should get, and if they don't get that, democracy is broken.
mvelbaum 4y ago
This is one of the reasons why I'm personally not all in on electric vehicles. The other is that there are doubts that the grid can actually handle almost everyone switching to them. See also: https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-balance-with-leland-vittert/california-asks-ev-owners-to-cut-back-on-charging/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-balance-with-leland-vittert...
- snarf21 4y ago
  Everyone isn't going to switch over in 1 month or even 1 year. There will be a slow progression. We never have "doubts" that the grid can actually handle the demand when for each new 200+ person development we build. I'm sure there are places that need upgrades but they'll get them when they are needed just like when we put in a new shopping center and have to add new infrastructure.
  - starkd 4y ago
    The problem is that there is not enough development of new sources. Even with efficiency gains from wind/solar, not only is it not enough they have to be backed up with coal or gas. Also, plugging the new sources into the grid is not a simple process as it looks.
- starkd 4y ago
  Yes. This may be the reason Toyota is yet to go all in on EV's (though they have invested in it somewhat). The ceo may be the smartest guy in the room. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/29/toyota-ceo-stands-by-electrified-vehicle-strategy-amid-criticism.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/29/toyota-ceo-stands-by-electri...
unicornmama 4y ago
This is really over blown. Yes we have plans to restrict electric car usage. We also have plans to restrict HD streaming and blu ray players. Things will have to get really bad for us to cross that line.
moonchrome 4y ago
I mean this is in the "rolling blackouts" kind of scenario - don't see how that's controversial. If you're risking cutting off entire blocks from grid electric cars seem irrelevant in comparison.
- micwag 4y ago
  Yes, this is the penultimate step before blackouts. Other steps in the same category are: Heating limited to 18C, maximum washing machine temperature of 40C, restrictions on opening hours for business, etc..
the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
The proposal[1] is a month old at this point and people narrow down on the electric cars. Other things the proposal is banning are game consoles, HD streaming, portable electric heaters, dryers, irons and gaming computers. [1]: https://www.newsd.admin.ch/newsd/message/attachments/74051.pdf https://www.newsd.admin.ch/newsd/message/attachments/74051.p...
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  Not to mention... electric leaf blowers. It seems oddly specific. I mean the green alternative to a leaf blower is a rake, it's just a bit more labor intensive.
- usrusr 4y ago
  The smart thing to do would be including an explicit possibility to also requisition any ICE car for duties like emergency transport or stationary heat/power for an extreme scenario like that. Not only to soften the prepper appeal (that will still be strong nonetheless, just like it already was strong before those BEV restriction contingency plans), but also because that's something you'd actually want to do if it came that far.
- KurvaKing 4y ago
fsh 4y ago
What a terrible article. This kind of snarky drivel adds nothing to the discussion. I don't understand why such obvious flame bait gets voted to the front page of HN.
- pjc50 4y ago
  I've flagged it.
- starkd 4y ago
  you have anything of substance to say?
dopamean 4y ago
This should not be a surprise in a world where electricity demands are sky rocketing and municipalities are asking people to conserve power. If you have internet connected devices that can be controlled remotely by someone who is not you, like your car, then at some point you may find yourself with a disabled device until the crisis abates. IMO this makes a great case not having so many devices be so "smart." Wouldn't it be great if you could just have a dumb old car powered by electricity and not an iPad on wheels? During a big freeze in the states a couple years ago power customers in Colorado discovered that they couldn't bump the heat in their homes past a certain temperature. It turned out they had all bought thermostats from their power company that allowed the provider to control the thermostat under certain conditions. People were pissed and doubly so when they realized they had agreed to it in the contract. I don't know what rules are in place in Switzerland for EVs but this feels like a similar scenario. This is an interesting topic of conversation, however, this article is mostly garbage though (as are the rest on the site) and should probably be flagged.
- starkd 4y ago
  I largely agree with you, but before you call a post garbage, you might want to be a little more specific and even cite some sources. He raises some troubling issues concerning cost/benefit that have largely gone unanswered.
blamazon 4y ago
Worth noting, Switzerland has awesome public transport. I went there as a tourist and criss crossed most of the major urban centers without a car. You can even go to the top of mountains without a car! It's a little funny to see people suited up in ski gear on the subway. Even funnier to watch them hop off and ski away from the mountaintop station. Next time I go I will be one of them. I also recall there was a way to get a discounted yearly pass for citizens, far far less expensive than car ownership.
- secretsatan 4y ago
  Many people don’t own cars, myself included, i think my yearly travel costs would equate to a couple of months of car ownership. I’m a member of a car share scheme for the few times i do need a car, moving large stuff around etc. It’s not always practical, costs with families can quickly rack up, more remote places are less well served (but still served). The half tax card is not just for citizens, but it isn’t so widely known about that not having one is a bit of a tourist tax, you just have to work out if your length of stay and travel costs will be reduced enough to cover the upfront cost of the pass
  - blamazon 4y ago
    Awesome tip! I really want to go back with the goal of riding every funicular and cog railway, so this will come in handy.
dbetteridge 4y ago
Wow that's some full on conspiracy theory level crazy articles on that site...
nottorp 4y ago
This is making rounds on every clickbaity site in the world. The article is always incomplete. Apparently Switzerland did write down a plan for how to handle a real energy crisis. It has like 4 levels (from what i remember about the original piece of news), from "expensive electricity" to "we really seriously don't have enough energy input for the current consumers and need to shut something down". The part about not using electric cars is at level 3 or 4 of bad out of 4. Going to press the flag button on a HN post for the first time since I've started reading it.
barefoot 4y ago
Side note: landing on this particular website was a hilariously bad experience. The scrollable content area on my (modern and average sized) mobile device represented less than one third of the viewport. The remaining two thirds are taken up by ads. The bottom ad drawer (1/3) contained extremely low value irrelevant ads with blatantly false claims. The top third was taken up by an ad seemingly from the site itself to try to get me to sign up for a free “preparedness binder”. I’m assuming that later leads to some type of marketing drip campaign. For the icing on the cake, the central tiny (less than 1/3) area with scrollable content is an ad disguised as a poll! I give up. You’ll find me on Gemini.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  > I give up. You’ll find me on Gemini. Blocking those ads takes far less effort for far greater gains given the dearth of content hosted on Gemini. Just block the damn things already, no holds barred, pedal to the metal, guns blazing. The only good ad is a blocked ad.
secretsatan 4y ago
Oh, now looking at the name of the website, i see why all the NWO kooks are here with the doom and the gloom
polotics 4y ago
I have been bombarded by this "news" so many times in so many forms it's amazing. The list of ideas on restrictions in case of electricity shortages is very long, and this is in the "emergency" category I believe, so very unlikely to happen. The non-news is: the Swiss are organized, who'd have thought.
dvh 4y ago
Finally a killer feature for the compressed air cars

25 points by mikece 4y ago

cs702 4y ago

...And technologically speaking, they'll have the option of doing it remotely.

secretsatan 4y ago
Where does it say that? AFAIK these will be voluntary measures.
- cs702 4y ago
  The software necessary for remotely disabling vehicle use is already present in every EV. Whether the state can and will choose to use that software, now or in the future, is a separate question.
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    Not to mention every public charging post has a data connection to meter things; I wouldn't be surprised if private ones do too, at least the higher capacity ones. Regular plugs won't, but they're very slow charging relatively (and thus won't have as high an impact on the grid) I mean one thing they could also do is just lower the max charging capacity, or shape it according to current capacity.
  - secretsatan 4y ago
    It’s pretty much present in every modern car, but in a non paranoid world, what will probably happen is the police will just stop them on the road
- starkd 4y ago
  Voluntary at first. It could easily become mandatory as the grid gets more and more strained from the increased usage.

lettergram 4y ago

It’ll be real fun during the next set of lockdowns when the government disables all non-essential peoples vehicles. A democracy functions under freedom of movement, speech, self-defense, self-reliance, etc If the people can’t move, are censored, can’t support themselves and must support the government… you’re not free or in a democracy.

secretsatan 4y ago
Where are you people getting this idea that they will shut things down remotely, it’s not mentioned anywhere in this article, the sources, or official pages
mbg721 4y ago
A handy hack for getting around pesky legal protections of human rights is to realize that while the rights themselves are protected, the levers people apply to them in everyday practice are not. So you can just selectively outlaw levers.
hutzlibu 4y ago
"you’re not free or in a democracy. " Depends. People could vote against emergency laws now, but since most people are ok with that mechanism, it is democratic. And I say that as someone who is not ok with those laws. But I can accept that the majority thinks otherwise. And in general, switzerland with their tradition of direct democracy and consensus is certainly more democratic than most other states.
flanked-evergl 4y ago
> A democracy functions under freedom of movement, speech, self-defense, self-reliance, etc Not to nit pick, but while I'm picking nits. What you refer to is liberal democracy. Karl Popper explained this very well in his book Conjectures And Refutations: > The difference between a democracy and a tyranny is that under a democracy the government can be got rid of without bloodshed; under a tyranny it cannot. > Democracy as such cannot confer any benefits upon the citizen and it should not be expected to do so. In fact democracy can do nothing—only the citizens of the democracy can act (including, of course, those citizens who comprise the government). Democracy provides no more than a framework within which the citizens may act in a more or less organized and coherent way. > We are democrats, not because the majority is always right, but because democratic traditions are the least evil ones of which we know. If the majority (or ‘public opinion’) decides in favour of tyranny, a democrat need not therefore suppose that some fatal inconsistency in his views has been revealed. He will realize, rather, that the democratic tradition in his country was not strong enough. If people in Switzerland choose a government that restricts their movement, this is what they should get, and if they don't get that, democracy is broken.

mvelbaum 4y ago

This is one of the reasons why I'm personally not all in on electric vehicles. The other is that there are doubts that the grid can actually handle almost everyone switching to them. See also: https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-balance-with-leland-vittert/california-asks-ev-owners-to-cut-back-on-charging/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/on-balance-with-leland-vittert...

snarf21 4y ago
Everyone isn't going to switch over in 1 month or even 1 year. There will be a slow progression. We never have "doubts" that the grid can actually handle the demand when for each new 200+ person development we build. I'm sure there are places that need upgrades but they'll get them when they are needed just like when we put in a new shopping center and have to add new infrastructure.
- starkd 4y ago
  The problem is that there is not enough development of new sources. Even with efficiency gains from wind/solar, not only is it not enough they have to be backed up with coal or gas. Also, plugging the new sources into the grid is not a simple process as it looks.
starkd 4y ago
Yes. This may be the reason Toyota is yet to go all in on EV's (though they have invested in it somewhat). The ceo may be the smartest guy in the room. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/29/toyota-ceo-stands-by-electrified-vehicle-strategy-amid-criticism.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/29/toyota-ceo-stands-by-electri...

unicornmama 4y ago

This is really over blown. Yes we have plans to restrict electric car usage. We also have plans to restrict HD streaming and blu ray players. Things will have to get really bad for us to cross that line.

moonchrome 4y ago

I mean this is in the "rolling blackouts" kind of scenario - don't see how that's controversial. If you're risking cutting off entire blocks from grid electric cars seem irrelevant in comparison.

micwag 4y ago
Yes, this is the penultimate step before blackouts. Other steps in the same category are: Heating limited to 18C, maximum washing machine temperature of 40C, restrictions on opening hours for business, etc..

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago

The proposal[1] is a month old at this point and people narrow down on the electric cars. Other things the proposal is banning are game consoles, HD streaming, portable electric heaters, dryers, irons and gaming computers. [1]: https://www.newsd.admin.ch/newsd/message/attachments/74051.pdf https://www.newsd.admin.ch/newsd/message/attachments/74051.p...

Cthulhu_ 4y ago
Not to mention... electric leaf blowers. It seems oddly specific. I mean the green alternative to a leaf blower is a rake, it's just a bit more labor intensive.
usrusr 4y ago
The smart thing to do would be including an explicit possibility to also requisition any ICE car for duties like emergency transport or stationary heat/power for an extreme scenario like that. Not only to soften the prepper appeal (that will still be strong nonetheless, just like it already was strong before those BEV restriction contingency plans), but also because that's something you'd actually want to do if it came that far.
KurvaKing 4y ago

fsh 4y ago

What a terrible article. This kind of snarky drivel adds nothing to the discussion. I don't understand why such obvious flame bait gets voted to the front page of HN.

pjc50 4y ago
I've flagged it.
starkd 4y ago
you have anything of substance to say?

dopamean 4y ago

This should not be a surprise in a world where electricity demands are sky rocketing and municipalities are asking people to conserve power. If you have internet connected devices that can be controlled remotely by someone who is not you, like your car, then at some point you may find yourself with a disabled device until the crisis abates. IMO this makes a great case not having so many devices be so "smart." Wouldn't it be great if you could just have a dumb old car powered by electricity and not an iPad on wheels? During a big freeze in the states a couple years ago power customers in Colorado discovered that they couldn't bump the heat in their homes past a certain temperature. It turned out they had all bought thermostats from their power company that allowed the provider to control the thermostat under certain conditions. People were pissed and doubly so when they realized they had agreed to it in the contract. I don't know what rules are in place in Switzerland for EVs but this feels like a similar scenario. This is an interesting topic of conversation, however, this article is mostly garbage though (as are the rest on the site) and should probably be flagged.

starkd 4y ago
I largely agree with you, but before you call a post garbage, you might want to be a little more specific and even cite some sources. He raises some troubling issues concerning cost/benefit that have largely gone unanswered.

blamazon 4y ago

Worth noting, Switzerland has awesome public transport. I went there as a tourist and criss crossed most of the major urban centers without a car. You can even go to the top of mountains without a car! It's a little funny to see people suited up in ski gear on the subway. Even funnier to watch them hop off and ski away from the mountaintop station. Next time I go I will be one of them. I also recall there was a way to get a discounted yearly pass for citizens, far far less expensive than car ownership.

secretsatan 4y ago
Many people don’t own cars, myself included, i think my yearly travel costs would equate to a couple of months of car ownership. I’m a member of a car share scheme for the few times i do need a car, moving large stuff around etc. It’s not always practical, costs with families can quickly rack up, more remote places are less well served (but still served). The half tax card is not just for citizens, but it isn’t so widely known about that not having one is a bit of a tourist tax, you just have to work out if your length of stay and travel costs will be reduced enough to cover the upfront cost of the pass
- blamazon 4y ago
  Awesome tip! I really want to go back with the goal of riding every funicular and cog railway, so this will come in handy.

dbetteridge 4y ago

Wow that's some full on conspiracy theory level crazy articles on that site...

nottorp 4y ago

This is making rounds on every clickbaity site in the world. The article is always incomplete. Apparently Switzerland did write down a plan for how to handle a real energy crisis. It has like 4 levels (from what i remember about the original piece of news), from "expensive electricity" to "we really seriously don't have enough energy input for the current consumers and need to shut something down". The part about not using electric cars is at level 3 or 4 of bad out of 4. Going to press the flag button on a HN post for the first time since I've started reading it.

barefoot 4y ago

Side note: landing on this particular website was a hilariously bad experience. The scrollable content area on my (modern and average sized) mobile device represented less than one third of the viewport. The remaining two thirds are taken up by ads. The bottom ad drawer (1/3) contained extremely low value irrelevant ads with blatantly false claims. The top third was taken up by an ad seemingly from the site itself to try to get me to sign up for a free “preparedness binder”. I’m assuming that later leads to some type of marketing drip campaign. For the icing on the cake, the central tiny (less than 1/3) area with scrollable content is an ad disguised as a poll! I give up. You’ll find me on Gemini.

the_third_wave 4y ago
> I give up. You’ll find me on Gemini. Blocking those ads takes far less effort for far greater gains given the dearth of content hosted on Gemini. Just block the damn things already, no holds barred, pedal to the metal, guns blazing. The only good ad is a blocked ad.

secretsatan 4y ago

Oh, now looking at the name of the website, i see why all the NWO kooks are here with the doom and the gloom

polotics 4y ago

I have been bombarded by this "news" so many times in so many forms it's amazing. The list of ideas on restrictions in case of electricity shortages is very long, and this is in the "emergency" category I believe, so very unlikely to happen. The non-news is: the Swiss are organized, who'd have thought.

dvh 4y ago

Finally a killer feature for the compressed air cars