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There is still no real general contenders for Tesla realistically speaking, and I would really like it if there was. There just isn’t. No one else is putting

There is still no real general contenders for Tesla realistically speaking, and I would really like it if there was. There just isn’t. No one else is putting out EVs at the volume and quality (functional quality, not finishes / luxury) that Teslas have and it isn’t even close. The Tesla battery is stupidly reliable. The car in general is the most reliable vehicle I’ve owned and it isn’t even close. I have ~200k miles on my 2019 Model 3, and I taken it to ungodly places off roads, through deserts, tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, beach coasts, every terrain imaginable — some even jeeps would have issues with. I had to replace the bottom a least twice because I ripped up the covers, but not once did the vehicle ever stop running or being reliable. When I set in other vehicles, it is like I’m in the past, or some invisible super powers have left me. I don’t have high opinions of Musk and wish he didn’t get involved with Twitter at all. It would have been better for him to be focused on acquiring more funds for the mission towards sustainable energy and multi-planet species. Stop taking credit for the work of others and do everything possible to enable them instead of managing them; his companies do well because the people believe in the mission, not because of him. After this situation boils down, Tesla will still be producing the best EVs on the market, because the mission is a good one. Long story short, I don’t want to do with Musk but in the foreseeable future I don’t see me getting any EV besides a Tesla. There are just too many variables to consider when managing a battery and battery life, and even if another company comes out with something that looks better, I’m willing to bet reliability won’t even be close & the battery pack will be significantly degraded after a year — not to mention the lack of a nation-scale charging network.

d23 4y ago
Where is this “stupid reliable battery” line coming from? I’ve heard this exact phrase multiple times, and I have no idea how a consumer would be in a position to judge such a thing, so it makes me suspicious.
- bravetraveler 4y ago
  Similar thoughts here. Taking the car on terrain is more a question of ride height than durability, anyway Being able to roll over things is the minimum The real car manufacturers are slow and lazy, but they only need to learn how to slap electric motors and batteries in there As far as I'm concerned, musk did his part. He got EVs to be a part of the conversation
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    This has been my point in many arguments. I don't need an autopilot or 24/7 connectivity. I just want a basic jeep/sedan/truck that does what we've been doing with them for the past 100 years. My phone can do the rest of what I need from connectivity. I would be fine (more than fine) with a usb stick firmware upgrade. The less my car is connected over wifi/5g the better. I don't need anything beyond the standard instrument cluster. Upgrade me all around to LED lights everything and we're good. Think of me as a digital Amish. I only want those things that are functional and efficient.
    - survirtual 4y ago
      I actually agree with this. Want to start a new EV company? Could build a barebones, rugged EV that is cheap as hell, easy to hack, and has no unneeded electronics / no connectivity. I would switch over to that in a heartbeat.
- survirtual 4y ago
  I’m in a position to judge it because I have 200k miles in ~3 years, with a battery that has gotten beat to hell, in the coldest and warmest places in the US with 95% fast charging. It runs basically nonstop in the most extreme climates in the US. I’d call that stupid reliable. Doesn’t matter to me in any case; as long as Tesla can survive, all this hate just means there will be a shorter line when I grab my next one.
  - cmurf 4y ago
    I've got a 25 year old car that's done all that, no major repairs. I'll be surprised if a Tesla lasts 12 years.
    - survirtual 4y ago
      Your 25 year old car eats gasoline and takes a dump on the Earth, at the cost of the health of everyone. I’m not willing to do that to anyone, and since an alternative exists, I use it.
clouddrover 4y ago
> There is still no real general contenders for Tesla realistically speaking, and I would really like it if there was. There just isn’t. There appear to be many contenders, but then Europe's a bigger EV market than North America: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Years https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Y... The best EV platform for price to capability (800v, V2L) at the moment is probably Hyundai's E-GMP platform used in the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Hyundai Ioniq 6, Kia EV6, and the Genesis GV60. The best value EV is the Chevy Bolt: https://electrek.co/2022/12/20/the-chevy-bolt-is-about-to-be-a-screaming-deal-at-least-until-march/ https://electrek.co/2022/12/20/the-chevy-bolt-is-about-to-be... The outright best platform is the Lucid Air for both range and performance: https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDpQpcPpuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDpQpcPpuc
- pwinnski 4y ago
  I've been driving a Fiat 500e for a few years, and I love it, but nobody would consider it competition for Tesla. My new 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV, on the other hand, it's amazing. And so inexpensive!
- survirtual 4y ago
  This Ionic 6 looks interesting. Has the base specs I would want, if it was around when I got my Tesla I may have got that instead to have a brand with less mental space in people’s head. Lucid Air has an outrageous price for 4 doors slapped on electric motors so I wouldn’t even consider one.
drcongo 4y ago
I don't know if this is true in the US, but it's absolutely not true in the rest of the world - there's a huge choice of EVs that are considerably better than a Tesla, with the added bonus of being nothing to do with Musk.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  Uggg we can get anything we want here in the US as well. Lol why do Europeans assume the entirety of the US is a 3rd world backwater nation.
  - Zigurd 4y ago
    Homelessness, declining life expectancy, infant mortality, guns, brownshirt gangs, lax regulations...
    - prewett 4y ago
      Homelessness/100k [1]: UK: 54.4, France: 45, Netherlands: 18, China: 18, US: 17.6, Germany: 4.4, Russia: 4 Life expectancy [2]: declining everywhere at about the same rate Infant mortality [3]: Europe ranges from 2.5 (Spain/Portugal) to 3.4 (Netherlands) to 3.6 (Switzerland, Greece) to 3.8 (UK); US is 5.2. By comparison, Canada is 4.8 Guns [4]: Europe is hardly some gunless utopia. Switzerland has 27 legally owned guns per 100 people, Portual 21, Germany 20. Granted, the US does have 120 guns / 100 people. Brownshirt gangs: no idea what this is Lax regulations: hard to quantify this, also "lax" compared to what? Europe is frequently accused of having overly restrictive regulations, especially by entrepreneurial types. The US has problems, but it's hardly a third-world place by these measurements. Instead, it comes off as the sort of condescension that your parent was complaining about. And it's not like Europe doesn't have it's share of problems. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy [3] https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/infant-mortality-rate/country-comparison https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/infant-mortalit... [4] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-ownership-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-owner...
alphabettsy 4y ago
> Model 3, and I taken it to ungodly places off roads, through deserts, tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, beach coasts, every terrain imaginable — some even jeeps would have issues with This is borderline comedy. I think you’re tremendously underestimating what a Jeep can do just with its ride height compared to a Model 3, that’s before considering the hardware that makes them significantly more capable. A stock Model 3 cannot cross a log or a high median.
- spoils19 4y ago
  I don't know about you, but I vehemently agree with the GP. I've taken a Model 3 right through the middle of a tsunami and the water literally parted like the Red Sea thanks to the innovation of Musk. My family and I were far safer than we would have been in a simple jeep.
  - ryanwaggoner 4y ago
    Sadly, I can no longer assume this is satire.
- survirtual 4y ago
  Nah. Instant torque and a low center of gravity give a Tesla super powers that a jeep doesn’t have. There are many places higher clearance vehicles can go that I can’t, but there are many places I can go that they can’t — without puncturing an oil can, or rolling over, or any number of other reasons. People here can say what they want, but I’ve been places on the US and seen things, with pictures to prove it, that most Americans won’t see in their lifetime.
  - alphabettsy 4y ago
    Can’t explain why I’m indulging this because it seems like a joke, but do you have an example of a place a stock Model 3 can go off-road that a Jeep Rubicon cannot? Like a photo or video?
    - 4y ago

d23 4y ago

Where is this “stupid reliable battery” line coming from? I’ve heard this exact phrase multiple times, and I have no idea how a consumer would be in a position to judge such a thing, so it makes me suspicious.

bravetraveler 4y ago
Similar thoughts here. Taking the car on terrain is more a question of ride height than durability, anyway Being able to roll over things is the minimum The real car manufacturers are slow and lazy, but they only need to learn how to slap electric motors and batteries in there As far as I'm concerned, musk did his part. He got EVs to be a part of the conversation
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  This has been my point in many arguments. I don't need an autopilot or 24/7 connectivity. I just want a basic jeep/sedan/truck that does what we've been doing with them for the past 100 years. My phone can do the rest of what I need from connectivity. I would be fine (more than fine) with a usb stick firmware upgrade. The less my car is connected over wifi/5g the better. I don't need anything beyond the standard instrument cluster. Upgrade me all around to LED lights everything and we're good. Think of me as a digital Amish. I only want those things that are functional and efficient.
  - survirtual 4y ago
    I actually agree with this. Want to start a new EV company? Could build a barebones, rugged EV that is cheap as hell, easy to hack, and has no unneeded electronics / no connectivity. I would switch over to that in a heartbeat.
survirtual 4y ago
I’m in a position to judge it because I have 200k miles in ~3 years, with a battery that has gotten beat to hell, in the coldest and warmest places in the US with 95% fast charging. It runs basically nonstop in the most extreme climates in the US. I’d call that stupid reliable. Doesn’t matter to me in any case; as long as Tesla can survive, all this hate just means there will be a shorter line when I grab my next one.
- cmurf 4y ago
  I've got a 25 year old car that's done all that, no major repairs. I'll be surprised if a Tesla lasts 12 years.
  - survirtual 4y ago
    Your 25 year old car eats gasoline and takes a dump on the Earth, at the cost of the health of everyone. I’m not willing to do that to anyone, and since an alternative exists, I use it.

clouddrover 4y ago

> There is still no real general contenders for Tesla realistically speaking, and I would really like it if there was. There just isn’t. There appear to be many contenders, but then Europe's a bigger EV market than North America: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Years https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Y... The best EV platform for price to capability (800v, V2L) at the moment is probably Hyundai's E-GMP platform used in the Hyundai Ioniq 5, Hyundai Ioniq 6, Kia EV6, and the Genesis GV60. The best value EV is the Chevy Bolt: https://electrek.co/2022/12/20/the-chevy-bolt-is-about-to-be-a-screaming-deal-at-least-until-march/ https://electrek.co/2022/12/20/the-chevy-bolt-is-about-to-be... The outright best platform is the Lucid Air for both range and performance: https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDpQpcPpuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDpQpcPpuc

pwinnski 4y ago
I've been driving a Fiat 500e for a few years, and I love it, but nobody would consider it competition for Tesla. My new 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV, on the other hand, it's amazing. And so inexpensive!
survirtual 4y ago
This Ionic 6 looks interesting. Has the base specs I would want, if it was around when I got my Tesla I may have got that instead to have a brand with less mental space in people’s head. Lucid Air has an outrageous price for 4 doors slapped on electric motors so I wouldn’t even consider one.

drcongo 4y ago

I don't know if this is true in the US, but it's absolutely not true in the rest of the world - there's a huge choice of EVs that are considerably better than a Tesla, with the added bonus of being nothing to do with Musk.

stjohnswarts 4y ago
Uggg we can get anything we want here in the US as well. Lol why do Europeans assume the entirety of the US is a 3rd world backwater nation.
- Zigurd 4y ago
  Homelessness, declining life expectancy, infant mortality, guns, brownshirt gangs, lax regulations...
  - prewett 4y ago
    Homelessness/100k [1]: UK: 54.4, France: 45, Netherlands: 18, China: 18, US: 17.6, Germany: 4.4, Russia: 4 Life expectancy [2]: declining everywhere at about the same rate Infant mortality [3]: Europe ranges from 2.5 (Spain/Portugal) to 3.4 (Netherlands) to 3.6 (Switzerland, Greece) to 3.8 (UK); US is 5.2. By comparison, Canada is 4.8 Guns [4]: Europe is hardly some gunless utopia. Switzerland has 27 legally owned guns per 100 people, Portual 21, Germany 20. Granted, the US does have 120 guns / 100 people. Brownshirt gangs: no idea what this is Lax regulations: hard to quantify this, also "lax" compared to what? Europe is frequently accused of having overly restrictive regulations, especially by entrepreneurial types. The US has problems, but it's hardly a third-world place by these measurements. Instead, it comes off as the sort of condescension that your parent was complaining about. And it's not like Europe doesn't have it's share of problems. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy [3] https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/infant-mortality-rate/country-comparison https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/infant-mortalit... [4] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-ownership-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-owner...

alphabettsy 4y ago

> Model 3, and I taken it to ungodly places off roads, through deserts, tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, beach coasts, every terrain imaginable — some even jeeps would have issues with This is borderline comedy. I think you’re tremendously underestimating what a Jeep can do just with its ride height compared to a Model 3, that’s before considering the hardware that makes them significantly more capable. A stock Model 3 cannot cross a log or a high median.

spoils19 4y ago
I don't know about you, but I vehemently agree with the GP. I've taken a Model 3 right through the middle of a tsunami and the water literally parted like the Red Sea thanks to the innovation of Musk. My family and I were far safer than we would have been in a simple jeep.
- ryanwaggoner 4y ago
  Sadly, I can no longer assume this is satire.
survirtual 4y ago
Nah. Instant torque and a low center of gravity give a Tesla super powers that a jeep doesn’t have. There are many places higher clearance vehicles can go that I can’t, but there are many places I can go that they can’t — without puncturing an oil can, or rolling over, or any number of other reasons. People here can say what they want, but I’ve been places on the US and seen things, with pictures to prove it, that most Americans won’t see in their lifetime.
- alphabettsy 4y ago
  Can’t explain why I’m indulging this because it seems like a joke, but do you have an example of a place a stock Model 3 can go off-road that a Jeep Rubicon cannot? Like a photo or video?
  - 4y ago