5 ms·

So what I think is the most likely outcome is that we realise there are better ways to preserve the dead for reanimation, and nobody will ever bother working on

by Gatsky 4y ago

So what I think is the most likely outcome is that we realise there are better ways to preserve the dead for reanimation, and nobody will ever bother working on how to salvage the crudely frozen/vitrified. I personally think the way forward is to derive the neural connectivity and transcriptional state map of the brain on a single cell level. This can be done today, albeit at great expense, on tissue that is chemically fixed. Maybe this will be enough to reanimate someone in a new substrate. Maybe more data will be required, but eventually we’ll get there, accepting that human consciousness is subject to the laws of physics.

ShredKazoo 4y ago
>nobody will ever bother working on how to salvage the crudely frozen/vitrified. I disagree, I think salvaging them will be of tremendous historical interest. Imagine if we could bring back a peasant from the 1400s. Medieval scholars would be all over that.
- Gatsky 4y ago
  Perhaps, I guess it depends on how much of the data we generate (tweets, video, blogs, text messages etc) survives into the future.
  - ShredKazoo 4y ago
    And how big/well-resourced history departments are in the future: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/20/in-the-future-everyone-will-be-famous-to-fifteen-people/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/20/in-the-future-everyone...
brap 4y ago
So is it really the same person you're reanimating, or is it someone/something that simulates that person perfectly to the outside world? I mean, suppose you could do that while the person is still alive. Assuming the reanimated person even has consciousness, then surely(?) the two won't share the same experience, like some hive-mind with two bodies. I don't think the original person being dead makes any difference. So it's less about preserving "yourself" (whatever that means), and more about assuring that a backup clone exists after you die. I can see why that might be useful (it's kind of like leaving a will), but your experience probably ends when you die.
- Tepix 4y ago
  > is it someone/something that simulates that person perfectly to the outside world what difference does it make?
  - hulitu 4y ago
    Did you ever used a simulator ? The results depend on the models you use.
  - crubier 4y ago
    Your experience ends. Whether someone else who happens to have the same brain as you lives is almost irrelevant in that context. Most people interested in cryo do this to prevent their experience from ending.
    - torben-friis 4y ago
      yet we don't really have a way to know whether our experience exists as a continuum. I could be a different experiencer to the one who was here yesterday, yet I retain their memories as mine so I have no clue that I'm 'new'. I might die today by falling asleep. I may not even be the same a second from now.
      - brap 4y ago
        Were you really conscious a second ago, or is it only a memory that may as well be an illusion? Are you conscious right now? And what about right now?
    - Tepix 4y ago
      Good point. On the other hand whenever you sleep your experience also kind of ends. But i get what you're saying.
- netsharc 4y ago
  Recently I had a thought, that if you copied the contents of your brain onto an object that can the simulate it, or even a new brain, then the "new instance" of you will probably just think it's the real you, just that it's on a computer/in a different body now. If New You sees a picture of a partner that left you, or a pet that died when you were a child, it will feel the same sadness you would. And it would just go about the day like you would, with your internal thoughts, because what else would it do? I think the way I see it now is, your mind is a black box to your current consciousness (with some interfaces to recall things), if you replaced this black box with a perfect simulation, your consciousness might not even notice it. Of course your consciouness has also been programmed since the day you were born, but wouldn't a perfect copy of your mind also copy the current consciouness? Either of you would wake up and think "Ah, I'm brap, and I'm currently in my bed, and yesterday I did x and felt y, and the day before... [iterate until there's nothing else to remember]." If Original You remains alive, it does get weird, both of you will think "There's someone else with my own exact brain and memory, but I can't feel what s/he's currently feeling!". There's an Apple movie that explores about what I've written, although I haven't watched it: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/mahershala-ali-swan-song-apple-trailer-1235042319/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/mahersha...

by Gatsky 4y ago

ShredKazoo 4y ago

>nobody will ever bother working on how to salvage the crudely frozen/vitrified. I disagree, I think salvaging them will be of tremendous historical interest. Imagine if we could bring back a peasant from the 1400s. Medieval scholars would be all over that.

Gatsky 4y ago
Perhaps, I guess it depends on how much of the data we generate (tweets, video, blogs, text messages etc) survives into the future.
- ShredKazoo 4y ago
  And how big/well-resourced history departments are in the future: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/20/in-the-future-everyone-will-be-famous-to-fifteen-people/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/20/in-the-future-everyone...

brap 4y ago

So is it really the same person you're reanimating, or is it someone/something that simulates that person perfectly to the outside world? I mean, suppose you could do that while the person is still alive. Assuming the reanimated person even has consciousness, then surely(?) the two won't share the same experience, like some hive-mind with two bodies. I don't think the original person being dead makes any difference. So it's less about preserving "yourself" (whatever that means), and more about assuring that a backup clone exists after you die. I can see why that might be useful (it's kind of like leaving a will), but your experience probably ends when you die.

Tepix 4y ago
> is it someone/something that simulates that person perfectly to the outside world what difference does it make?
- hulitu 4y ago
  Did you ever used a simulator ? The results depend on the models you use.
- crubier 4y ago
  Your experience ends. Whether someone else who happens to have the same brain as you lives is almost irrelevant in that context. Most people interested in cryo do this to prevent their experience from ending.
  - torben-friis 4y ago
    yet we don't really have a way to know whether our experience exists as a continuum. I could be a different experiencer to the one who was here yesterday, yet I retain their memories as mine so I have no clue that I'm 'new'. I might die today by falling asleep. I may not even be the same a second from now.
    - brap 4y ago
      Were you really conscious a second ago, or is it only a memory that may as well be an illusion? Are you conscious right now? And what about right now?
  - Tepix 4y ago
    Good point. On the other hand whenever you sleep your experience also kind of ends. But i get what you're saying.
netsharc 4y ago
Recently I had a thought, that if you copied the contents of your brain onto an object that can the simulate it, or even a new brain, then the "new instance" of you will probably just think it's the real you, just that it's on a computer/in a different body now. If New You sees a picture of a partner that left you, or a pet that died when you were a child, it will feel the same sadness you would. And it would just go about the day like you would, with your internal thoughts, because what else would it do? I think the way I see it now is, your mind is a black box to your current consciousness (with some interfaces to recall things), if you replaced this black box with a perfect simulation, your consciousness might not even notice it. Of course your consciouness has also been programmed since the day you were born, but wouldn't a perfect copy of your mind also copy the current consciouness? Either of you would wake up and think "Ah, I'm brap, and I'm currently in my bed, and yesterday I did x and felt y, and the day before... [iterate until there's nothing else to remember]." If Original You remains alive, it does get weird, both of you will think "There's someone else with my own exact brain and memory, but I can't feel what s/he's currently feeling!". There's an Apple movie that explores about what I've written, although I haven't watched it: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/mahershala-ali-swan-song-apple-trailer-1235042319/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/mahersha...