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> German "Auslaenderfeindlichkeit" won't help either. I think this is a unfair generalization. Positivity towards migrants in Germany is above EU average: htt

by ls15 4y ago

> German "Auslaenderfeindlichkeit" won't help either. I think this is a unfair generalization. Positivity towards migrants in Germany is above EU average: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/07/25/european-xenophobia-reflects-racial-diversity-not-asylum-applications https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/07/25/european... So while there is for sure xenophobia in Germany, I would not say that it is particularly a German thing. 11% of the current Bundestag members have a migration background (names and looks as well), which is lower than the share in the population, but the number is growing with each election. It seems like social mobility for migrants exists in Germany. > Where else than Canada can you find the highest number of taxi/Uber drivers with a law/medical degree? Foreign law degrees would be pretty useless in Germany or Canada or most other countries, even if they were more accepted. A better example may be physicists driving taxi while there are not enough science teachers in schools. Of course equivalent education should be more accepted where possible, but when it comes to medical staff or other safety-critical jobs, I expect people to be at least well-tested before they can start to work as a doctor in Germany. There are countries where degrees can be bought for money, while Germany indeed has pretty high (and famous) standards for safety. Many wealthy foreigners come to Germany for surgeries.

Glawen 4y ago
> So while there is for sure xenophobia in Germany, I would not say that it is particularly a German thing. You're missing the point of the article, and I guess you're German because you feel accused of being racist, so you feel the need to defend yourself. The point is that Germany is having labour shortage while immigrants are out of the labour market, singling out an inefficient resource allocation. >Of course equivalent education should be more accepted where possible, but when it comes to medical staff or other safety-critical jobs, I expect people to be at least well-tested before they can start to work as a doctor in Germany. There are countries where degrees can be bought for money, while Germany indeed has pretty high (and famous) standards for safety. Many wealthy foreigners come to Germany for surgeries. Germany > the world, yes I've heard that theory. Until the world see it in practice with example like dieselgate, BER etc...
- ls15 4y ago
  > You're missing the point of the article, and I guess you're German because you feel accused of being racist, so you feel the need to defend yourself. Yes I am German and I feel the need to defend us a bit, because the term German "Ausländerfeindlichkeit" is an unfair generalization that paints a wrong picture of Germans and I don't think that xenophobia is a main reason for worker shortage, even if that gets repeated often. > The point is that Germany is having labour shortage while immigrants are out of the labour market, singling out an inefficient resource allocation. One of the main reasons besides lack of qualification why immigrants are out of the labour market is that German "Bürokratie" (now this is self-evident) makes it hard for anyone who is not very proficient in German "Bürokratie" or has the legal status to get a job. However, in IT I see many colleagues with foreign backgrounds. Probably because it is easier to adapt IT skills to another country than it would be with legal or medical. > Germany > the world, yes I've heard that theory. Until the world see it in practice with example like dieselgate, BER etc... Yes and digitalization in Germany is a huge joke, but treating rich foreigners in German hospitals is indeed a growing market and the reason is perception of high quality.
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    [deleted]
- carlmr 4y ago
  >Germany > the world, yes I've heard that theory. Until the world see it in practice with example like dieselgate, BER etc... You really hate Germans, don't you. I think you have Germanphobia. Asking for a basic equivalence of education is just fairness. Flooding the market with cheap, "educated" (but not really) labor is not a solution. I do think Germany could do better in accepting foreign degrees, but so could the US and Canada. I have worked with plenty of outsourced IT where they did obviously buy their degree. They had no clue of the language they were supposedly expert in. And, yes, you will find misconduct somewhere at German universities, but there are countries where you can't trust the accreditation process of universities in general and you have to run a background check on the specific university someone attended. What we do need though is German companies to realize that they need to have internationally attractive salaries to attract international talent. And we should enable equivalence checking of foreign degrees so that international talent can work here. It just shouldn't be done blindly.
gruez 4y ago
>Foreign law degrees would be pretty useless in Germany or Canada or most other countries, even if they were more accepted. A better example may be physicists driving taxi while there are not enough science teachers in schools. Knowing science is a small part of teaching, especially when teaching kids where the material isn't super advanced. Other skills like communication are far more important.

by ls15 4y ago

Glawen 4y ago

> So while there is for sure xenophobia in Germany, I would not say that it is particularly a German thing. You're missing the point of the article, and I guess you're German because you feel accused of being racist, so you feel the need to defend yourself. The point is that Germany is having labour shortage while immigrants are out of the labour market, singling out an inefficient resource allocation. >Of course equivalent education should be more accepted where possible, but when it comes to medical staff or other safety-critical jobs, I expect people to be at least well-tested before they can start to work as a doctor in Germany. There are countries where degrees can be bought for money, while Germany indeed has pretty high (and famous) standards for safety. Many wealthy foreigners come to Germany for surgeries. Germany > the world, yes I've heard that theory. Until the world see it in practice with example like dieselgate, BER etc...

ls15 4y ago
> You're missing the point of the article, and I guess you're German because you feel accused of being racist, so you feel the need to defend yourself. Yes I am German and I feel the need to defend us a bit, because the term German "Ausländerfeindlichkeit" is an unfair generalization that paints a wrong picture of Germans and I don't think that xenophobia is a main reason for worker shortage, even if that gets repeated often. > The point is that Germany is having labour shortage while immigrants are out of the labour market, singling out an inefficient resource allocation. One of the main reasons besides lack of qualification why immigrants are out of the labour market is that German "Bürokratie" (now this is self-evident) makes it hard for anyone who is not very proficient in German "Bürokratie" or has the legal status to get a job. However, in IT I see many colleagues with foreign backgrounds. Probably because it is easier to adapt IT skills to another country than it would be with legal or medical. > Germany > the world, yes I've heard that theory. Until the world see it in practice with example like dieselgate, BER etc... Yes and digitalization in Germany is a huge joke, but treating rich foreigners in German hospitals is indeed a growing market and the reason is perception of high quality.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
carlmr 4y ago
>Germany > the world, yes I've heard that theory. Until the world see it in practice with example like dieselgate, BER etc... You really hate Germans, don't you. I think you have Germanphobia. Asking for a basic equivalence of education is just fairness. Flooding the market with cheap, "educated" (but not really) labor is not a solution. I do think Germany could do better in accepting foreign degrees, but so could the US and Canada. I have worked with plenty of outsourced IT where they did obviously buy their degree. They had no clue of the language they were supposedly expert in. And, yes, you will find misconduct somewhere at German universities, but there are countries where you can't trust the accreditation process of universities in general and you have to run a background check on the specific university someone attended. What we do need though is German companies to realize that they need to have internationally attractive salaries to attract international talent. And we should enable equivalence checking of foreign degrees so that international talent can work here. It just shouldn't be done blindly.

gruez 4y ago

>Foreign law degrees would be pretty useless in Germany or Canada or most other countries, even if they were more accepted. A better example may be physicists driving taxi while there are not enough science teachers in schools. Knowing science is a small part of teaching, especially when teaching kids where the material isn't super advanced. Other skills like communication are far more important.