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In the UK, flashing green man means "don't start crossing". Where I live in the US, red countdown timer means "don't start crossing".

maria2 4y ago
The red countdown timer means run in the US.
- maxbond 4y ago
  No, they are correct, it means "don't start crossing." Not everyone can run, eg, people in wheelchairs or people who need walkers, or able bodied people carrying lots of groceries. Running as a pedestrian is very dangerous. It creates confusion for drivers, it makes you more difficult to see, and it makes it more difficult for you to see if you're running in front of a moving car.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    Unless I am actually out for a run, I don't run to cross intersections but blinking hand means "cross with a sense of urgency" to me if I'm not yet crossing but I saw it start blinking and have an idea that it isn't a handful of seconds from changing.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    That's not universally correct. A few years ago, in San Francisco (I don't think it was California-wide, but maybe I'm misremembering), the law was changed so that it's legal to even start crossing on a flashing orange, as long as you are safely able to get out of the intersection before the light changes. (And as of Jan 1 of next year, jaywalking will no longer be an offense in California, so you can cross whenever and wherever you want, as long as it's not dangerous to do so.)
    - em-bee 4y ago
      is it really like that? in europe generally jaywalking is only allowed if there is no marked crossing nearby. crossing at a red light is not jaywalking but a different offence that is still punished.
      - RugnirViking 4y ago
        yep, it's like that in the UK as well. No such concept as jaywalking at all, you can cross right next to a marked crossing when its red if you must. Works on social trust and works well
        TylerE 4y ago
        Jaywalking always seemed like such a weird “crime” to me. I’m surprised I don’t hear about it being abused more.
        ehnto 4y ago
        You are right to feel that way, and I think it helps to picture what life was like when the term showed up. These days we take it as almost an immutable fact that cars are on roads, and people are wherever else they can fit. But back then (1910s) streets in city centers were still commonly unsealed dirt roads. While cars were starting to get popular, they still moved at walking pace, and people using roads were still a mix of adults and kids just walking about, bikes, horse drawn buggies or carts. Looking back at photographs from the time you notice that the roads are just full of foot traffic, they weren't crossing the road, the road was how they got around. But cars were getting faster and more dangerous, and it was no longer compatible to have mixed traffic. Rather than ban cars from cities, we convinced people that actually, it was the car's road afterall and you shouldn't have been there! During that time the term jay walking came about, and it was used to paint the pedestrians as the one's getting in the way of the automobile driver, rather than it being the automobile that was out of place. If we use a very cynical lens, and I think we should, it was a essentially a marketing campaign from automobile makers.
        BoxOfRain 4y ago
zerocrates 4y ago
I'm sure there's some sort of logic to how these are set up, but I've seen many that have long "countdown" phases even for a very short crossing. It's relatively rare to see a pedestrian light that will stay white for more than a couple seconds. Realistically pedestrians are making a judgment call on whether the seconds remaining seem like enough to let them cross, rather than obeying the flashing-red indication to not start crossing.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  "I'm sure there's some sort of logic to how these are set up" Yeah I think the logic is: 1. Maximize car throughput. 2. A pedestrian is entitled to cross only if they were waiting when the light changed to 'walk', and not if they arrived when other pedestrians were already walking.
kelnos 4y ago
Heh, in California (er maybe just San Francisco, can't remember), as of a few years ago, the orange countdown (or just a flashing orange hand) means "go ahead if you think you can make it across safely before the light changes". And two weeks from now (also in California), legally, you can do whatever the hell you want, even cross on a solid orange hand (or even cross where there is no crosswalk), as long as you do it safely.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  "go ahead if you think you can make it across safely before the light changes" I know that's true in practice, but is it the official meaning?

maria2 4y ago

The red countdown timer means run in the US.

maxbond 4y ago
No, they are correct, it means "don't start crossing." Not everyone can run, eg, people in wheelchairs or people who need walkers, or able bodied people carrying lots of groceries. Running as a pedestrian is very dangerous. It creates confusion for drivers, it makes you more difficult to see, and it makes it more difficult for you to see if you're running in front of a moving car.
- brewdad 4y ago
  Unless I am actually out for a run, I don't run to cross intersections but blinking hand means "cross with a sense of urgency" to me if I'm not yet crossing but I saw it start blinking and have an idea that it isn't a handful of seconds from changing.
- kelnos 4y ago
  That's not universally correct. A few years ago, in San Francisco (I don't think it was California-wide, but maybe I'm misremembering), the law was changed so that it's legal to even start crossing on a flashing orange, as long as you are safely able to get out of the intersection before the light changes. (And as of Jan 1 of next year, jaywalking will no longer be an offense in California, so you can cross whenever and wherever you want, as long as it's not dangerous to do so.)
  - em-bee 4y ago
    is it really like that? in europe generally jaywalking is only allowed if there is no marked crossing nearby. crossing at a red light is not jaywalking but a different offence that is still punished.
    - RugnirViking 4y ago
      yep, it's like that in the UK as well. No such concept as jaywalking at all, you can cross right next to a marked crossing when its red if you must. Works on social trust and works well
      - TylerE 4y ago
        Jaywalking always seemed like such a weird “crime” to me. I’m surprised I don’t hear about it being abused more.
        ehnto 4y ago
        You are right to feel that way, and I think it helps to picture what life was like when the term showed up. These days we take it as almost an immutable fact that cars are on roads, and people are wherever else they can fit. But back then (1910s) streets in city centers were still commonly unsealed dirt roads. While cars were starting to get popular, they still moved at walking pace, and people using roads were still a mix of adults and kids just walking about, bikes, horse drawn buggies or carts. Looking back at photographs from the time you notice that the roads are just full of foot traffic, they weren't crossing the road, the road was how they got around. But cars were getting faster and more dangerous, and it was no longer compatible to have mixed traffic. Rather than ban cars from cities, we convinced people that actually, it was the car's road afterall and you shouldn't have been there! During that time the term jay walking came about, and it was used to paint the pedestrians as the one's getting in the way of the automobile driver, rather than it being the automobile that was out of place. If we use a very cynical lens, and I think we should, it was a essentially a marketing campaign from automobile makers.
        BoxOfRain 4y ago

zerocrates 4y ago

I'm sure there's some sort of logic to how these are set up, but I've seen many that have long "countdown" phases even for a very short crossing. It's relatively rare to see a pedestrian light that will stay white for more than a couple seconds. Realistically pedestrians are making a judgment call on whether the seconds remaining seem like enough to let them cross, rather than obeying the flashing-red indication to not start crossing.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
"I'm sure there's some sort of logic to how these are set up" Yeah I think the logic is: 1. Maximize car throughput. 2. A pedestrian is entitled to cross only if they were waiting when the light changed to 'walk', and not if they arrived when other pedestrians were already walking.

kelnos 4y ago

Heh, in California (er maybe just San Francisco, can't remember), as of a few years ago, the orange countdown (or just a flashing orange hand) means "go ahead if you think you can make it across safely before the light changes". And two weeks from now (also in California), legally, you can do whatever the hell you want, even cross on a solid orange hand (or even cross where there is no crosswalk), as long as you do it safely.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
"go ahead if you think you can make it across safely before the light changes" I know that's true in practice, but is it the official meaning?