5 ms·

Do you actually think the police send a SWAT team to every single call? 99% of calls in the US would be the exact normal response you said - police knock on the

by imgabe 4y ago

Do you actually think the police send a SWAT team to every single call? 99% of calls in the US would be the exact normal response you said - police knock on the door and ask questions. The problem is the swatters know the exact type of call to make to elicit a SWAT response, usually involving someone being held hostage and in imminent danger of being killed. The police can't just assume people making that kind of call are lying, they have to respond as if it's real. It's not a problem of the police just responding to every call like that.

richbell 4y ago
> Do you actually think the police send a SWAT team to every single call? I don't think that's what they're implying at all, given the context is about swatting.
- imgabe 4y ago
  They are more or less stating that the problem is overzealous responses from police, rather than police receiving a fake call for which a SWAT team would be an appropriate response. Do police in other countries simply not have the capacity to deal with people in imminent danger? Their response to getting a call claiming that there's a crazy person in the house about to murder the caller is to knock politely and ask questions? Seems more like the police in other countries suck then.
  - richbell 4y ago
    > They are more or less stating that the problem is overzealous responses from police, rather than police receiving a fake call for which a SWAT team would be an appropriate response. The problem is that swatting is enabled precisely because the police's response isn't appropriate. The fact that swatting is so prominent, let alone an issue in the first place, is a testament to that. Police forces demonstrably: tend to be hyper-militarized, do not train or require de-escalation, do not face legal repercussions for unlawful actions, do not keep up-to-date with various trends and technology, etc. Going in guns-blazing isn't going to save anyone if you don't validate basic information like "is this the right house?" or "did this call purporting to be from someone in our city come from a random Google Voice or Skype number?" or "have we received fake calls from this address already?"
  - jachee 4y ago
    I can’t think of a single kind of situation requiring a police response where surprise escalation is a key component that will help solve that situation in favor of controlled investigation and a focus on de-escalation.
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      Active shooter probably.
      - defrost 4y ago
        Ironically the standard US response for an active shooter in a school appears to be to wait outside for a good while and see if things work out for themselves.
      - nickcox 4y ago
        Which you'd think they'd verify be confirmed reports or actually, like, hearing gunshots.
    - LanceH 4y ago
      > surprise escalation surprise escalation into an unknown, unverified situation where the only basis for the use of deadly force is whether the police feel there is danger. Of course they are in fear for their lives because they are leaping into the unknown, unprepared. We hear about the militarization of the police. I hate that term. They are playing soldier, not acting it. Having been in the military, if we had a situation and the time we would monitor a location and find out everything we could. Apparently that wasn't passed along to the police, only the guns were.
  - auveair 4y ago
    > Do police in other countries simply not have the capacity to deal with people in imminent danger? Speaking from europe, we just don't have that here, at least not enough to have SWAT forces ready immediately. I can't think of any times that it was a problem the SWAT team was not ready.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      The equivilant to SWAT in Germany is run by state police. They are used in specific situations, and most of those are never covered by the press. Statiscally, they are have on average around one deployment per day. The big difference is, those units in Europe are a professiobally trained force and part of a professionally trained police force. And not somw wannabe commandos recruited from ill-trained police officers run by departments too small to even exist in Europe.
      - someweirdperson 4y ago
        > The equivilant to SWAT in Germany is run by state police. Federal.
        formerly_proven 4y ago
        No? SWAT ~= MEK, SEK FBI HRT ~= GSG-9
        hef19898 4y ago
        The French also have multiple: GIGN from the Gendarmerie, GIPN and RAID from the Police National. The small police departments and sheriffs offices, the latter with elected sheriffs without any real training and qualification requirements, are an US thing.
phpisthebest 4y ago
There is a HUGE range of responses from nothing <-----> Full On military Assault shooting everything that moves. That fact that citizens of the US have simply accepted that the latter is even remotely a proper response to even "someone being held hostage and in imminent danger of being killed" calls is both sadden, and maddening at the same time
- coeneedell 4y ago
  If I was being held hostage and in imminent danger of being killed, I would prefer an armed response.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    Is that an educated preference - you have looked up your chances of survival in an armed response vs a negotiated one, or an instinct?
    - coeneedell 4y ago
      In this hypothetical we’re beyond negotiation anyway. I think I made this clear with the clause “in imminent danger of being killed”. If hostage negotiation were possible, that would not be imminent danger of being killed. I’m a member of a minority group that is currently experiencing an uptick in violence from the American public. I’m generally a good-natured person and tend not to make enemies. If someone is in my home with a firearm, they’re there to kill me for my perceived connections to big banking, a rational person does not commit random acts of violence like that. You do, unintentionally, make a stellar point though. If someone in my part of America called the police because someone was trying to kill me, there will likely not be a police response once they see the last name of the target. Hostage negotiations have a high success rate. It’s one of the very few things to be proud of about our law enforcement strategy. That being said, hostage crises generally happen in public places, and can only be successful if terrorism is not the goal. I would be deeply surprised if anyone decided to attack specifically me if their goal was not to strike fear into my community.

by imgabe 4y ago

richbell 4y ago

> Do you actually think the police send a SWAT team to every single call? I don't think that's what they're implying at all, given the context is about swatting.

imgabe 4y ago
They are more or less stating that the problem is overzealous responses from police, rather than police receiving a fake call for which a SWAT team would be an appropriate response. Do police in other countries simply not have the capacity to deal with people in imminent danger? Their response to getting a call claiming that there's a crazy person in the house about to murder the caller is to knock politely and ask questions? Seems more like the police in other countries suck then.
- richbell 4y ago
  > They are more or less stating that the problem is overzealous responses from police, rather than police receiving a fake call for which a SWAT team would be an appropriate response. The problem is that swatting is enabled precisely because the police's response isn't appropriate. The fact that swatting is so prominent, let alone an issue in the first place, is a testament to that. Police forces demonstrably: tend to be hyper-militarized, do not train or require de-escalation, do not face legal repercussions for unlawful actions, do not keep up-to-date with various trends and technology, etc. Going in guns-blazing isn't going to save anyone if you don't validate basic information like "is this the right house?" or "did this call purporting to be from someone in our city come from a random Google Voice or Skype number?" or "have we received fake calls from this address already?"
- jachee 4y ago
  I can’t think of a single kind of situation requiring a police response where surprise escalation is a key component that will help solve that situation in favor of controlled investigation and a focus on de-escalation.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    Active shooter probably.
    - defrost 4y ago
      Ironically the standard US response for an active shooter in a school appears to be to wait outside for a good while and see if things work out for themselves.
    - nickcox 4y ago
      Which you'd think they'd verify be confirmed reports or actually, like, hearing gunshots.
  - LanceH 4y ago
    > surprise escalation surprise escalation into an unknown, unverified situation where the only basis for the use of deadly force is whether the police feel there is danger. Of course they are in fear for their lives because they are leaping into the unknown, unprepared. We hear about the militarization of the police. I hate that term. They are playing soldier, not acting it. Having been in the military, if we had a situation and the time we would monitor a location and find out everything we could. Apparently that wasn't passed along to the police, only the guns were.
- auveair 4y ago
  > Do police in other countries simply not have the capacity to deal with people in imminent danger? Speaking from europe, we just don't have that here, at least not enough to have SWAT forces ready immediately. I can't think of any times that it was a problem the SWAT team was not ready.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    The equivilant to SWAT in Germany is run by state police. They are used in specific situations, and most of those are never covered by the press. Statiscally, they are have on average around one deployment per day. The big difference is, those units in Europe are a professiobally trained force and part of a professionally trained police force. And not somw wannabe commandos recruited from ill-trained police officers run by departments too small to even exist in Europe.
    - someweirdperson 4y ago
      > The equivilant to SWAT in Germany is run by state police. Federal.
      - formerly_proven 4y ago
        No? SWAT ~= MEK, SEK FBI HRT ~= GSG-9
        hef19898 4y ago
        The French also have multiple: GIGN from the Gendarmerie, GIPN and RAID from the Police National. The small police departments and sheriffs offices, the latter with elected sheriffs without any real training and qualification requirements, are an US thing.

phpisthebest 4y ago

There is a HUGE range of responses from nothing <-----> Full On military Assault shooting everything that moves. That fact that citizens of the US have simply accepted that the latter is even remotely a proper response to even "someone being held hostage and in imminent danger of being killed" calls is both sadden, and maddening at the same time

coeneedell 4y ago
If I was being held hostage and in imminent danger of being killed, I would prefer an armed response.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Is that an educated preference - you have looked up your chances of survival in an armed response vs a negotiated one, or an instinct?
  - coeneedell 4y ago
    In this hypothetical we’re beyond negotiation anyway. I think I made this clear with the clause “in imminent danger of being killed”. If hostage negotiation were possible, that would not be imminent danger of being killed. I’m a member of a minority group that is currently experiencing an uptick in violence from the American public. I’m generally a good-natured person and tend not to make enemies. If someone is in my home with a firearm, they’re there to kill me for my perceived connections to big banking, a rational person does not commit random acts of violence like that. You do, unintentionally, make a stellar point though. If someone in my part of America called the police because someone was trying to kill me, there will likely not be a police response once they see the last name of the target. Hostage negotiations have a high success rate. It’s one of the very few things to be proud of about our law enforcement strategy. That being said, hostage crises generally happen in public places, and can only be successful if terrorism is not the goal. I would be deeply surprised if anyone decided to attack specifically me if their goal was not to strike fear into my community.