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> On November 24, 2022, a fatal residential apartment building fire broke out in Urumqi, China, killing several residents who had been locked into their apartme

> On November 24, 2022, a fatal residential apartment building fire broke out in Urumqi, China, killing several residents who had been locked into their apartments from outside as part of China’s zero-COVID effort. Meanwhile in the states, we're more or less returning back to "normal" or perhaps pretending that COVID no longer exists. It's been 2+ years since the beginning of the pandemic, is zero-COVID goal even possible at this point...

Tagbert 4y ago
Zero-Covid would only make sense while you don’t have a strong vaccine with good uptake. After that, it makes sense to open up but take precautions like masking in crowded conditions or during spike outbreaks. China seemed to stick with zero-covid for too long and never did get a vaccine that produced a strong and long lasting immune response and refused to import a vaccine. Secondary question… is this related to the linked article?
- agentgumshoe 4y ago
  Nowhere in the world at present has a strong vaccine and 'good' is probably a plastic term in defining usefullness, especially if you're trying to hit the elusive herd immunity number.
- imgabe 4y ago
  It's the first sentence in the linked article.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Newer variants like BQQ mostly evade the vaccine and (even more concerningly, the monoclonal antibodies don’t work so hot either https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/23495149/covid-19-treatment-monoclonal-antibody-therapy-drug https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/23495149/covid-19-tre...
- jefftk 4y ago
  Your "Zero-Covid would only make sense while you don’t have a strong vaccine with good uptake." explains your "China seemed to stick with zero-covid for too long": they "never did get a vaccine that produced a strong and long lasting immune response and refused to import a vaccine." That is, given the constraints of "Sinovac isn't very good" and "we're not going to import" they were stuck with zero-covid.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    Sinovac is good. Almost entire Asia, Africa, South America used it. If it was bad, then everyone would be 'stuck with zero-covid'. Sinovac is not good only because Wall Street wants to sell Pfizer to China and China doesnt want it. Hence "Xi isn't willing to accept VACCINES" nonsensical title. It was either in WaPo or NYT. Literally lying, smearing, corporate hit job that drops one word, 'Pfizer' in order to be able to push it behind the word 'vaccines'. Why Pfizer? Because their lobbyists turned out to be most influential. Neutralizing every single vaccine maker in the West including the mRNA alternative, Moderna. Hence the gigantic campaign that is "China is in trouble". ... Its not China that is losing ~100,000 a year to covid despite vaccination and 'reopening'. Its the US. The US is in trouble.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > China seemed to stick with zero-covid for too long and never did get a vaccine that produced a strong and long lasting immune response and refused to import a vaccine. Asia, Africa, South America used Sinovac. If it was 'weak', there would be catastrophes all around. Since there isn't any such catastrophe anywhere, its not a matter of Sinovac being weak - its a matter of Pfizer lobbyists being dominant and wanting to push their product through entire Angloamerican establishment, and doing so through both the state organs and the corporate media. First, China 'had to reopen'. Then, China is immediately 'in trouble'. Now, 'Xi is hesitant to accept vaccines', for some reason, despite China having a variety of domestically produced vaccines -> but obviously, the lobby push to export Pfizer was done and failed in China with China preferring its own vaccines. Hence the new smear job against China's own vaccines. The mere progression of the headlines in the past 2-3 weeks can tell one what is the highest level geopolitical/corporate play that is being done.
unity1001 4y ago
Yep. Even as the US loses ~100,000 people/year from covid despite the all-mighty Pfizer vaccine having been made de facto vaccine by lobbyist pressure, the US corporate press is busy smearing China and China's vaccine for being 'weak'. Despite entire world from Asia to Africa to South America having used it. But of course, China must reopen, then must import vaccines and it must be Pfizer. After all, it was possible for Pfizer lobbyists to neutralize literally entire competition in Europe and push Pfizer as the de facto singular vaccine - why should not they try the same in China. ... Capitalism creates the worst incentives.
- kodyo 4y ago
  You can have corruption and cronyism under any economic system. I'd rather have our shitshow than China's.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    In no other system corruption and 'cronyism' is legalized, encouraged and enforced like in Capitalism. What would be corruption anywhere else is your 'lobbying'. That's your shitshow. And that's why you are in knee deep sh*t.
bioemerl 4y ago
> is zero-COVID goal even possible at this point... You are two or three weeks behind the curve on this one, China has basically opened up and is going through a massive covid surge as we speak. Zero covid is over
choward 4y ago
Wait, you used that as an example that China is doing the right thing?

Tagbert 4y ago

Zero-Covid would only make sense while you don’t have a strong vaccine with good uptake. After that, it makes sense to open up but take precautions like masking in crowded conditions or during spike outbreaks. China seemed to stick with zero-covid for too long and never did get a vaccine that produced a strong and long lasting immune response and refused to import a vaccine. Secondary question… is this related to the linked article?

agentgumshoe 4y ago
Nowhere in the world at present has a strong vaccine and 'good' is probably a plastic term in defining usefullness, especially if you're trying to hit the elusive herd immunity number.
imgabe 4y ago
It's the first sentence in the linked article.
TylerE 4y ago
Newer variants like BQQ mostly evade the vaccine and (even more concerningly, the monoclonal antibodies don’t work so hot either https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/23495149/covid-19-treatment-monoclonal-antibody-therapy-drug https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/23495149/covid-19-tre...
jefftk 4y ago
Your "Zero-Covid would only make sense while you don’t have a strong vaccine with good uptake." explains your "China seemed to stick with zero-covid for too long": they "never did get a vaccine that produced a strong and long lasting immune response and refused to import a vaccine." That is, given the constraints of "Sinovac isn't very good" and "we're not going to import" they were stuck with zero-covid.
- unity1001 4y ago
  Sinovac is good. Almost entire Asia, Africa, South America used it. If it was bad, then everyone would be 'stuck with zero-covid'. Sinovac is not good only because Wall Street wants to sell Pfizer to China and China doesnt want it. Hence "Xi isn't willing to accept VACCINES" nonsensical title. It was either in WaPo or NYT. Literally lying, smearing, corporate hit job that drops one word, 'Pfizer' in order to be able to push it behind the word 'vaccines'. Why Pfizer? Because their lobbyists turned out to be most influential. Neutralizing every single vaccine maker in the West including the mRNA alternative, Moderna. Hence the gigantic campaign that is "China is in trouble". ... Its not China that is losing ~100,000 a year to covid despite vaccination and 'reopening'. Its the US. The US is in trouble.
unity1001 4y ago
> China seemed to stick with zero-covid for too long and never did get a vaccine that produced a strong and long lasting immune response and refused to import a vaccine. Asia, Africa, South America used Sinovac. If it was 'weak', there would be catastrophes all around. Since there isn't any such catastrophe anywhere, its not a matter of Sinovac being weak - its a matter of Pfizer lobbyists being dominant and wanting to push their product through entire Angloamerican establishment, and doing so through both the state organs and the corporate media. First, China 'had to reopen'. Then, China is immediately 'in trouble'. Now, 'Xi is hesitant to accept vaccines', for some reason, despite China having a variety of domestically produced vaccines -> but obviously, the lobby push to export Pfizer was done and failed in China with China preferring its own vaccines. Hence the new smear job against China's own vaccines. The mere progression of the headlines in the past 2-3 weeks can tell one what is the highest level geopolitical/corporate play that is being done.

unity1001 4y ago

Yep. Even as the US loses ~100,000 people/year from covid despite the all-mighty Pfizer vaccine having been made de facto vaccine by lobbyist pressure, the US corporate press is busy smearing China and China's vaccine for being 'weak'. Despite entire world from Asia to Africa to South America having used it. But of course, China must reopen, then must import vaccines and it must be Pfizer. After all, it was possible for Pfizer lobbyists to neutralize literally entire competition in Europe and push Pfizer as the de facto singular vaccine - why should not they try the same in China. ... Capitalism creates the worst incentives.

kodyo 4y ago
You can have corruption and cronyism under any economic system. I'd rather have our shitshow than China's.
- unity1001 4y ago
  In no other system corruption and 'cronyism' is legalized, encouraged and enforced like in Capitalism. What would be corruption anywhere else is your 'lobbying'. That's your shitshow. And that's why you are in knee deep sh*t.

bioemerl 4y ago

> is zero-COVID goal even possible at this point... You are two or three weeks behind the curve on this one, China has basically opened up and is going through a massive covid surge as we speak. Zero covid is over

choward 4y ago

Wait, you used that as an example that China is doing the right thing?