9 ms·

EVs have also been targeting a very specific segment of the market, which is not the most gas guzzling segment. Once EVs really move into the big SUV, pickup tr

EVs have also been targeting a very specific segment of the market, which is not the most gas guzzling segment. Once EVs really move into the big SUV, pickup truck, delivery vehicle, and 18-wheeler segments, the gasoline consumption reduction will be much more significant compared to the % of vehicles on the road that are electric.

Karrot_Kream 4y ago
Many newer EVs in the US are big SUVs (Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq) and Amazon is rolling out its new fleet of Rivian delivery trucks. Agreed, once more SUVs and gas guzzler equivalents have EV options it'll make a bigger impact. When my partner and I were choosing an EV, we had a hard time choosing a non-Tesla non-SUV model. (We weren't opposed to the Tesla for Musk reasons, simply that it was a capital cost we weren't willing to spend for the amount of driving we do.) LA recently bought its first electric firefighting apparatus! [1] is a marketing video talking about it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AafguE0KZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AafguE0KZk
- coffeebeqn 4y ago
  Those are not large SUVs. Rivian R1S and the E Hummer are probably closest to a large SUV in the market now
  - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
    I consider, and have read online, that the E Hummer and R1S are pickup trucks.
    - dawnerd 4y ago
      R1T is the truck. R1S uses the same platform but is a full size suv.
      - hedora 4y ago
        The R1T is closer to a jeep or SUV than a full sized pickup truck. The bed is extremely small, and it has lots of optional creature comforts for camping, etc. That's fine and all, but I'd expect it to mostly displace range rovers and high-trimline full-sized trucks with spotless paint in the beds.
    - throwawayacc3 4y ago
      The Rivian R1S is an SUV. The Rivian R1T is a pickup truck. They have two different consumer models now.
- a_t48 4y ago
  I ran into the same issue looking for a new car. :( I wanted something the size of a sedan (originally looking at a Civic or a Jetta) but the market for sedan sized EVs is small. The only model under 50k for 2021 was the Tesla Model 3. It's getting a little better - but the market is still not big.
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
    The Bolt is smaller and cheaper than the Model 3, if you measure size using dimensions like length and width. If you specifically desire a car with a sedan-shaped body, there is a gap in the market, because all the cheap electric cars are hatchbacks.
    - a_t48 4y ago
      I didn't get a Model 3 both for budgetary and Tesla reasons. Ended up getting an ICE which works out as my new apartment has no charging at it. Looking at the raw dimensions of the car I did get (Jetta GLI), the main difference is height versus an SUV/crossover. I suppose I do just like sedan shaped cars over others - my mother's Golf is a few inches shorter, but the volume it takes up makes it seem like a boat.
- mabbo 4y ago
  > big SUVs (Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq) Have you seen either of those vehicles? I've driven the Ioniq 5, and have one preordered. It's absolutely tiny, as far as SUV's go. Really it's a crossover, not quite an SUV and not quite a hatchback. It's a delightful vehicle and I can't wait to get mine, mind you. And the EV6 is smaller.
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
    Both the Ioniq 5 and the EV6 are > 180 inches long. The EV6 has a sleek configuration with lower capacity, so it feels smaller when you are sitting in it, but it’s not the best if you care about cramming your car into small parking spaces like you’d do with a Honda Fit.
chaostheory 4y ago
I feel that the other segments of the population don’t realize the non-environmental benefits of EVs like not wasting your time at a gas station (including the drive), or wasting time at a mechanic or doing maintenance yourself. From my experience, maintenance is an oil change every 2 years. The caveat is that every 10 years you need to change the battery for which the service is not yet very standard. I would also imagine that in the event of a disaster that we can restore electricity much faster than being able to deliver gasoline to all gas stations
- dantheman 4y ago
  Don't forget about cleaner air from regenerative breaking vs normal break pads.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    ^braking. Although regenerative breaking would be really cool. A self-healing car? Sign me up!
  - hedora 4y ago
    Sadly, EVs tend to burn through tires. (They're still a massive win for air quality though.)
    - alamortsubite 4y ago
      Yes, due to their weight and that sweet instant torque. As much as a quarter of the microplastics in our oceans are due to tire wear. So while it's hopeful that EVs represent the future of automobiles, far better would be a society that deprioritizes driving personal vehicles altogether.
      - hedora 4y ago
        This gizmo looks like it would help: https://www.jamesdysonaward.org/2020/project/the-tyre-collective/ https://www.jamesdysonaward.org/2020/project/the-tyre-collec... They could also use software to nerf the instant torque. I'd probably leave my car in "tire save" mode most of the time. I leave it in eco mode, but even with that, it's on track to eat a premium set of tires every 15-20k miles(!).
ars 4y ago
City buses are where EV is needed the most IMO. The stop and go constantly, barely on the freeway, and this is the kind of driving where EV shines. And they bletch tons of diesel exhaust on city streets. (Unlike trucks which are mostly in remote areas.) They also all return to a depot, so there's a good place for them to recharge. The only issue I can see is if there's enough time for them to sit and recharge. But I think it should work out with some good scheduling, since obviously there's much less service at night. > 18-wheeler segments That's not going to work so well. Don't they sleep in their trucks on the side of the road? 18 wheeler cabs are almost always on the move, there's not really a lot of time for them to sit and recharge. I expect 18 wheelers to be one of the last segments to go electric. They will only go electric when every truck stop has rows of fast chargers (so they can sleep and charge), and there's as many chargers as gas stations. This will take a long time.
- pornel 4y ago
  Buses are pretty bad in absolute terms, but they’re much cleaner on per-person basis (even taking into account they have low occupancy at times.) Anyway, still it’d be nice to electrify them all, at least for air quality and noise.
  - ars 4y ago
    > but they’re much cleaner on per-person basis That's not true. They might have lower CO2, but they are NOT cleaner. Diesel is uniquely bad in terms of air quality. Gasoline cars are very very clean. Here's a study: https://www.driving.co.uk/news/public-transport-worse-than-driving-for-exposure-to-air-pollution/ https://www.driving.co.uk/news/public-transport-worse-than-d...
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  Mounting large enough batteries for bus EVs is a challenge. Batteries are already a challenge on consumer EVs, but buses are an order of magnitude larger, and generally energy required to propel a vehicle forward is more than linear in the weight of a vehicle. Right now most implementations are in trolley buses that use batteries to compensate for portions of the line that don't have power. I imagine this will change soon but currently most buses that are not powered by gas are using hydrogen fuel cells due to energy requirements.
elgenie 4y ago
US Postal Service delivery trucks, which to a first approximation do exclusively stop-and-go driving block-to-block day-after-day, get only ~10 miles per gallon. FedEx / UPS / DHL / Amazon aren't much better. The biggest impact won't happen until the most inefficient cars being used the most heavily get replaced; the big SUVs and showy pickups replacing three year old ICEs version leases and being driven 4,000 miles per year aren't going to do a whole lot.

Karrot_Kream 4y ago

Many newer EVs in the US are big SUVs (Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq) and Amazon is rolling out its new fleet of Rivian delivery trucks. Agreed, once more SUVs and gas guzzler equivalents have EV options it'll make a bigger impact. When my partner and I were choosing an EV, we had a hard time choosing a non-Tesla non-SUV model. (We weren't opposed to the Tesla for Musk reasons, simply that it was a capital cost we weren't willing to spend for the amount of driving we do.) LA recently bought its first electric firefighting apparatus! [1] is a marketing video talking about it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AafguE0KZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AafguE0KZk

coffeebeqn 4y ago
Those are not large SUVs. Rivian R1S and the E Hummer are probably closest to a large SUV in the market now
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  I consider, and have read online, that the E Hummer and R1S are pickup trucks.
  - dawnerd 4y ago
    R1T is the truck. R1S uses the same platform but is a full size suv.
    - hedora 4y ago
      The R1T is closer to a jeep or SUV than a full sized pickup truck. The bed is extremely small, and it has lots of optional creature comforts for camping, etc. That's fine and all, but I'd expect it to mostly displace range rovers and high-trimline full-sized trucks with spotless paint in the beds.
  - throwawayacc3 4y ago
    The Rivian R1S is an SUV. The Rivian R1T is a pickup truck. They have two different consumer models now.
a_t48 4y ago
I ran into the same issue looking for a new car. :( I wanted something the size of a sedan (originally looking at a Civic or a Jetta) but the market for sedan sized EVs is small. The only model under 50k for 2021 was the Tesla Model 3. It's getting a little better - but the market is still not big.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  The Bolt is smaller and cheaper than the Model 3, if you measure size using dimensions like length and width. If you specifically desire a car with a sedan-shaped body, there is a gap in the market, because all the cheap electric cars are hatchbacks.
  - a_t48 4y ago
    I didn't get a Model 3 both for budgetary and Tesla reasons. Ended up getting an ICE which works out as my new apartment has no charging at it. Looking at the raw dimensions of the car I did get (Jetta GLI), the main difference is height versus an SUV/crossover. I suppose I do just like sedan shaped cars over others - my mother's Golf is a few inches shorter, but the volume it takes up makes it seem like a boat.
mabbo 4y ago
> big SUVs (Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq) Have you seen either of those vehicles? I've driven the Ioniq 5, and have one preordered. It's absolutely tiny, as far as SUV's go. Really it's a crossover, not quite an SUV and not quite a hatchback. It's a delightful vehicle and I can't wait to get mine, mind you. And the EV6 is smaller.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  Both the Ioniq 5 and the EV6 are > 180 inches long. The EV6 has a sleek configuration with lower capacity, so it feels smaller when you are sitting in it, but it’s not the best if you care about cramming your car into small parking spaces like you’d do with a Honda Fit.

chaostheory 4y ago

I feel that the other segments of the population don’t realize the non-environmental benefits of EVs like not wasting your time at a gas station (including the drive), or wasting time at a mechanic or doing maintenance yourself. From my experience, maintenance is an oil change every 2 years. The caveat is that every 10 years you need to change the battery for which the service is not yet very standard. I would also imagine that in the event of a disaster that we can restore electricity much faster than being able to deliver gasoline to all gas stations

dantheman 4y ago
Don't forget about cleaner air from regenerative breaking vs normal break pads.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  ^braking. Although regenerative breaking would be really cool. A self-healing car? Sign me up!
- hedora 4y ago
  Sadly, EVs tend to burn through tires. (They're still a massive win for air quality though.)
  - alamortsubite 4y ago
    Yes, due to their weight and that sweet instant torque. As much as a quarter of the microplastics in our oceans are due to tire wear. So while it's hopeful that EVs represent the future of automobiles, far better would be a society that deprioritizes driving personal vehicles altogether.
    - hedora 4y ago
      This gizmo looks like it would help: https://www.jamesdysonaward.org/2020/project/the-tyre-collective/ https://www.jamesdysonaward.org/2020/project/the-tyre-collec... They could also use software to nerf the instant torque. I'd probably leave my car in "tire save" mode most of the time. I leave it in eco mode, but even with that, it's on track to eat a premium set of tires every 15-20k miles(!).

ars 4y ago

City buses are where EV is needed the most IMO. The stop and go constantly, barely on the freeway, and this is the kind of driving where EV shines. And they bletch tons of diesel exhaust on city streets. (Unlike trucks which are mostly in remote areas.) They also all return to a depot, so there's a good place for them to recharge. The only issue I can see is if there's enough time for them to sit and recharge. But I think it should work out with some good scheduling, since obviously there's much less service at night. > 18-wheeler segments That's not going to work so well. Don't they sleep in their trucks on the side of the road? 18 wheeler cabs are almost always on the move, there's not really a lot of time for them to sit and recharge. I expect 18 wheelers to be one of the last segments to go electric. They will only go electric when every truck stop has rows of fast chargers (so they can sleep and charge), and there's as many chargers as gas stations. This will take a long time.

pornel 4y ago
Buses are pretty bad in absolute terms, but they’re much cleaner on per-person basis (even taking into account they have low occupancy at times.) Anyway, still it’d be nice to electrify them all, at least for air quality and noise.
- ars 4y ago
  > but they’re much cleaner on per-person basis That's not true. They might have lower CO2, but they are NOT cleaner. Diesel is uniquely bad in terms of air quality. Gasoline cars are very very clean. Here's a study: https://www.driving.co.uk/news/public-transport-worse-than-driving-for-exposure-to-air-pollution/ https://www.driving.co.uk/news/public-transport-worse-than-d...
Karrot_Kream 4y ago
Mounting large enough batteries for bus EVs is a challenge. Batteries are already a challenge on consumer EVs, but buses are an order of magnitude larger, and generally energy required to propel a vehicle forward is more than linear in the weight of a vehicle. Right now most implementations are in trolley buses that use batteries to compensate for portions of the line that don't have power. I imagine this will change soon but currently most buses that are not powered by gas are using hydrogen fuel cells due to energy requirements.

elgenie 4y ago

US Postal Service delivery trucks, which to a first approximation do exclusively stop-and-go driving block-to-block day-after-day, get only ~10 miles per gallon. FedEx / UPS / DHL / Amazon aren't much better. The biggest impact won't happen until the most inefficient cars being used the most heavily get replaced; the big SUVs and showy pickups replacing three year old ICEs version leases and being driven 4,000 miles per year aren't going to do a whole lot.