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At least there’s a choice with capitalism. Not to mention that we can consume foreign media if we wish. With socialism there’s only one choice and power is much

At least there’s a choice with capitalism. Not to mention that we can consume foreign media if we wish. With socialism there’s only one choice and power is much more concentrated. Like capitalism, socialism isn’t immune to corruption. The difference is the much greater concentration of power in one place for socialism which exacerbates the problem of corruption. I don’t deny that we’re either experiencing or about to experience late stage capitalism, but socialism tends to hit the late stage much faster as we’ve seen in the 20th century.

diordiderot 4y ago
> With socialism there’s only one choice and power is much more concentrated What makes you think that? I'm pretty sure socialism is an economic system not a political one
- chaostheory 4y ago
  Socialism is an economic system where the central government owns and controls all production and all distribution of everything. There is no private ownership in that system. If you want choice, that’s capitalism.
  - SQueeeeeL 4y ago
    Both systems in the theoretical limits will result in zero choice, as the govt consumes all choice in one and in the other the most efficient player marginalizes out all less efficient players (i.e. Amazon basic products slowly taking over all generic products due to their scale). Just gotta fingers cross that kings and billionaires keep being low key foolish and somehow destroying their monopolization on power so we don't live in a hell world
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      I agree. My point is that socialism is not a panacea, and it’s affected even more by corruption due to the extreme centralization of power.
      - SQueeeeeL 4y ago
        Yeah, the main thing I dislike about capitalism is how weak our say is about the corruption. Like we can watch insurance companies fuck us on the daily and people will genuinely act like it's their divine right to minimize cost at the expense of human life, because it unironically is, we are reduced to the place of dogs. At least in a state run system (with a functional democracy underlying) you're anger can be manifested in a changing of the state. Getting a functional democracy going is also it's own impossible problem though...
        chaostheory 4y ago
        It’s actually much worse in socialism because one entity controls literally everything. Corruption doesn’t disappear in a socialist system. It actually spreads faster and is more virulent because there is no separation of powers. Just imagine a CEO of everything and substitute it for your insurance company example. I would also argue that democracy is inherently incompatible with socialism due to this extreme centralization of power. The proof lies with multiple failed experiments in the 20th century. Socialism isn’t some new, radical idea anymore. We know what late stage socialism looks like.
        greenie_beans 4y ago
        i would argue the exact opposite. socialism, in its best form, is more democratic than capitalism. socialism != a CEO that controls everything. you put strong democratic systems in place to prevent the CEO or dictator. your insurance company is controlled by all the workers rather than a CEO, and they get to make decisions about the business, etc. there are a ton of permutations for how socialism can function and many of them aren't what the red scare leads everybody to believe. the 20th century failures were more like dictatorships than socialism. socialism is all about how you organize a business by giving workers control, rather than organizing with the employer/employee relationship in capitalism. the workers can vote for a CEO to make the big decisions if they want, or a creative director to design or whatever, but they can also have the power to fire that individual if they don't think they're doing a good job. and to your point about centralized control — we already have that with a ton of industries in america. we already have it for the US military, etc. seeing capitalism as the free market and socialism as a planned economy is a false dichotomy.

diordiderot 4y ago

> With socialism there’s only one choice and power is much more concentrated What makes you think that? I'm pretty sure socialism is an economic system not a political one

chaostheory 4y ago
Socialism is an economic system where the central government owns and controls all production and all distribution of everything. There is no private ownership in that system. If you want choice, that’s capitalism.
- SQueeeeeL 4y ago
  Both systems in the theoretical limits will result in zero choice, as the govt consumes all choice in one and in the other the most efficient player marginalizes out all less efficient players (i.e. Amazon basic products slowly taking over all generic products due to their scale). Just gotta fingers cross that kings and billionaires keep being low key foolish and somehow destroying their monopolization on power so we don't live in a hell world
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    I agree. My point is that socialism is not a panacea, and it’s affected even more by corruption due to the extreme centralization of power.
    - SQueeeeeL 4y ago
      Yeah, the main thing I dislike about capitalism is how weak our say is about the corruption. Like we can watch insurance companies fuck us on the daily and people will genuinely act like it's their divine right to minimize cost at the expense of human life, because it unironically is, we are reduced to the place of dogs. At least in a state run system (with a functional democracy underlying) you're anger can be manifested in a changing of the state. Getting a functional democracy going is also it's own impossible problem though...
      - chaostheory 4y ago
        It’s actually much worse in socialism because one entity controls literally everything. Corruption doesn’t disappear in a socialist system. It actually spreads faster and is more virulent because there is no separation of powers. Just imagine a CEO of everything and substitute it for your insurance company example. I would also argue that democracy is inherently incompatible with socialism due to this extreme centralization of power. The proof lies with multiple failed experiments in the 20th century. Socialism isn’t some new, radical idea anymore. We know what late stage socialism looks like.
        greenie_beans 4y ago
        i would argue the exact opposite. socialism, in its best form, is more democratic than capitalism. socialism != a CEO that controls everything. you put strong democratic systems in place to prevent the CEO or dictator. your insurance company is controlled by all the workers rather than a CEO, and they get to make decisions about the business, etc. there are a ton of permutations for how socialism can function and many of them aren't what the red scare leads everybody to believe. the 20th century failures were more like dictatorships than socialism. socialism is all about how you organize a business by giving workers control, rather than organizing with the employer/employee relationship in capitalism. the workers can vote for a CEO to make the big decisions if they want, or a creative director to design or whatever, but they can also have the power to fire that individual if they don't think they're doing a good job. and to your point about centralized control — we already have that with a ton of industries in america. we already have it for the US military, etc. seeing capitalism as the free market and socialism as a planned economy is a false dichotomy.