5 ms·

I don't mean to apologize for some of the awful things that go on in the United States, but your comment seems to come from the point of view of someone whose u

I don't mean to apologize for some of the awful things that go on in the United States, but your comment seems to come from the point of view of someone whose understanding of the country is built on popular media and clickbait headlines, rather than first-hand experience, if I may be so bold. Keep in mind that what gets reported on and popularized is what sells clicks/views/etc, and is not very representative of "normal life." It's true that services and norms vary widely across the different states, and in that sense perhaps there is not a "society" so much as "a patchwork of societies, not always working together." But I don't think it's quite the black-and-white either/or question that seems to be argued in this thread.

that_guy_iain 4y ago
- veb 4y ago
  Here in NZ, when the Christchurch Mosque shootings happened, the Police just rammed the offender off the road and cuffed him... without firing a single shot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings Wee video here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111954030/suspect-for-christchurch-mosque-shootings-told-officers-he-was-one-of-nine https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/11195... Honestly I think our Police do a lot of good. There's some bad apples, there's complaints - but that is normal. Overall, they tend to make good judgement calls (most of the time). To the defence of the US, sometimes their system does work: https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/11/24/us-jury-charge-police-officers-who-killed-kiwi-christian-glass/ https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/11/24/us-jury-charge-police-off... honestly though, shooting a guy in a car that wasn't in immediate danger to anyone else around him (he rung the police originally because he was having a mental health crisis - in NZ you do call the cops if you can) so they shoot him with beanbag rounds, tase him then shoot him six times fatally. A bit over the top...
  - mewse 4y ago
    > There's some bad apples [caution: good-natured linguistic pedantry follows. Apologies in advance!] As a point of interest, this usage of "bad apple" derives from the old folk wisdom: "one bad apple spoils the bunch". Unlike quite a lot of old folk wisdom, this saying is literally true: mold growing on one apple will quickly jump to and colonise other nearby apples, and overripe apples emit a gas which causes other nearby fruit to ripen (and then overripen) much faster than normal; so it's important not to store overripe/moldy apples together with regular fruit! Anyhow, my point is just this: "bad apples" doesn't mean that something is in the minority and therefore doesn't have much effect and can be safely ignored -- it means that something is in the minority but is likely to infect everything around it if urgent action isn't taken to separate them. If that wasn't your intended meaning, then "bad apples" was definitely the wrong metaphor to reach for. :)
- interroboink 4y ago
  > It comes from reading/listening/etc the responses of Americans to all the crazy shit that happens there. Right, no disagreement from me that these things happen. And responses are varied, as you say. What I was trying to get across was that you get a very lopsided view by concentrating on "crazy shit" and people's responses to it. For example: I live in the US. It's snowing where I am. It makes things beautiful. Some birds are at the feeder, and the furnace just turned on. I'm thankful for the warmth. I have some cookies to deliver to the neighbors later on (they recently gave us a loaf of their bread, which was delicious). ---- There you go, that was some real American culture (still second-hand for you, and admittedly not entirely representative). Not very interesting, but it's home. Multiply that by hundreds of millions of people, and yes, sprinkle in a handful of crazy shit too for good measure. Maybe that gets you a little bit closer to reality. Still plenty that needs fixing, of course. And I'm glad I don't live in Mississippi (:
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how bad other comments are or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

that_guy_iain 4y ago

veb 4y ago
Here in NZ, when the Christchurch Mosque shootings happened, the Police just rammed the offender off the road and cuffed him... without firing a single shot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings Wee video here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111954030/suspect-for-christchurch-mosque-shootings-told-officers-he-was-one-of-nine https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/11195... Honestly I think our Police do a lot of good. There's some bad apples, there's complaints - but that is normal. Overall, they tend to make good judgement calls (most of the time). To the defence of the US, sometimes their system does work: https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/11/24/us-jury-charge-police-officers-who-killed-kiwi-christian-glass/ https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/11/24/us-jury-charge-police-off... honestly though, shooting a guy in a car that wasn't in immediate danger to anyone else around him (he rung the police originally because he was having a mental health crisis - in NZ you do call the cops if you can) so they shoot him with beanbag rounds, tase him then shoot him six times fatally. A bit over the top...
- mewse 4y ago
  > There's some bad apples [caution: good-natured linguistic pedantry follows. Apologies in advance!] As a point of interest, this usage of "bad apple" derives from the old folk wisdom: "one bad apple spoils the bunch". Unlike quite a lot of old folk wisdom, this saying is literally true: mold growing on one apple will quickly jump to and colonise other nearby apples, and overripe apples emit a gas which causes other nearby fruit to ripen (and then overripen) much faster than normal; so it's important not to store overripe/moldy apples together with regular fruit! Anyhow, my point is just this: "bad apples" doesn't mean that something is in the minority and therefore doesn't have much effect and can be safely ignored -- it means that something is in the minority but is likely to infect everything around it if urgent action isn't taken to separate them. If that wasn't your intended meaning, then "bad apples" was definitely the wrong metaphor to reach for. :)
interroboink 4y ago
> It comes from reading/listening/etc the responses of Americans to all the crazy shit that happens there. Right, no disagreement from me that these things happen. And responses are varied, as you say. What I was trying to get across was that you get a very lopsided view by concentrating on "crazy shit" and people's responses to it. For example: I live in the US. It's snowing where I am. It makes things beautiful. Some birds are at the feeder, and the furnace just turned on. I'm thankful for the warmth. I have some cookies to deliver to the neighbors later on (they recently gave us a loaf of their bread, which was delicious). ---- There you go, that was some real American culture (still second-hand for you, and admittedly not entirely representative). Not very interesting, but it's home. Multiply that by hundreds of millions of people, and yes, sprinkle in a handful of crazy shit too for good measure. Maybe that gets you a little bit closer to reality. Still plenty that needs fixing, of course. And I'm glad I don't live in Mississippi (:
LarryMullins 4y ago
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how bad other comments are or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.