4 ms·

I haven't had it personally, but one of my SO's tried a famous "perpetual stew" when in France and we talked about it at one point. Her description kinda matche

I haven't had it personally, but one of my SO's tried a famous "perpetual stew" when in France and we talked about it at one point. Her description kinda matched what I'd expect from braises that I've let go to long: you end up with bland mush. I think there's a reason very few restaurants serve this style of dish, and it's not because of health codes. We live in an era of insane abundance compared to the medeivil and colonial eras. A lot of historic dishes from those times just don't stand up to the expectations of a modern pallet.

notfromhere 4y ago
It's a romantic notion but if you simmer anything for too long it'll just be generic food water at some point
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  It’s just old timey MSG.
- gfaure 4y ago
  How does this make any sense? The longer you simmer something, the more concentrated the remaining material becomes.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    Volatile flavor compounds boil off as well.
  - notfromhere 4y ago
    The flavor breaks down and so does the food. For example: boil potatoes for too long and more water gets into it. It'll kill the flavor and texture, so that the food tastes watery and the texture becomes soup-ey and wet.
jrochkind1 4y ago
> I think there's a reason very few restaurants serve this style of dish It is in fact quite common in some parts of China, as the OP mentions. But it's just a stock, used in other dishes, not a dish of it's own. > more specifically in the cuisines of Canton and Fujian, where there’s a rich tradition of making lou mei, or master stock, which is used to braise and poach meats. I had read about this before, I recall an article about maybe a US restaurant where the chef had brought the lou mei over from China, and the sous chefs who were tasked with keeping it going. I can't seem to track down the article now. But my understanding is that in fact very many restuarants in China do this, it's standard.
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  Not sure about China, but I’ve encountered local restaurants boasting broth that has continuously been cooked for decades in both Thailand and in Philippines.
- hnfong 4y ago
  Yep. The thing is you don't "drink" the stock (lou mei) because it's too salty. So the solid foods are taken out without much of the liquid, and when you've served all the food in a batch, you're left with ~50% volume of the stock. It's still flavorful, arguably even more so since it absorbed the other food flavors in addition to the original spices etc. So if you're operating a restaurant, you just keep the liquid, replenish it with a bit more spices and condiments, and use it again and again...
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    Nice, thanks for the context! I hadn't totally realized you're cooking food in it, removing the food, then re-using the broth! i guess you must have to strain it periodically. That is admittedly a really odd practice to me! It seems like it's origin might be at least in part just to not waste the stock? But people really believe it is important for flavor? (I am not suggesting it's not, how would I know?)
basseed 4y ago
thanks for your comment, just a small correction, it's "medieval" and "palate"
- metadat 4y ago
  "palate" is a physiological term which describes the roof of a beings mouth. Edit: @NovemberWhiskey I didn't know it was a dual-purpose word, thanks for the correction.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    No; "palate" was correct - it's a metonym in this case.
curiousllama 4y ago
I've always thought of it more as a way to conserve the calories that food represent, rather than a delicious dish in its own right
- GenerocUsername 4y ago
  Agreed. It's not some ultimate dish, nor was beer some delicious delicacy. These were techniques by our not so distant ancestors to survive in far less connected, far less hospitable times and conditions.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  It can preserve flavor, but it becomes concentrated as the water evaporates away, so i wouldn’t say you should ever grab a bowl of just that. Master stocks are used as a base in Chinese cooking the same way a lot of recipes already start from a stock; but it is rarer and rarer for home cooks to make stock from scratch and not just use a box from the store in the US. I have a lot of friends that categorically do not cook meat with bones in it. The Chinese one is also different from hunters’ stew in that it is a specific soup used as a base for future versions of said specific soup
  - prpl 4y ago
    Aromatics also tend to escape as well, not just water. There’s some good tests out there with venting vs non-venting pressure cookers for making stock
  - linsomniac 4y ago
    >It's rarer and rarer for home cooks to make stock from scratch Pity, it's really easy and super delicious. This past weekend my family was sick so I went to the store and got one of the deli roasted chickens (was in a hurry), pulled off most of the meat, and put it in a stock pot with celery, onions, carrots and some seasonings (S&P, fines herbs, star anise, bay leaves), and filled with water. Simmer for 3 hours, strain. Amazingly delicious, pretty easy, and the chicken and dumplings I made with it turned out fantastic. Pretty much any time there's a bone or carcass I'll use it to make something. Had a work lunch last week and I took the ham bone to make ham and beans. LPT: Cook with bones.
Spooky23 4y ago
A local restaurant had a minestrone soup that had been running for 10-15 years, until the place burned down. It was ridiculously good. I think the key aspect that made it good was that they served it with every meal so it turned over a lot.
- Sirened 4y ago
  Do you know what they did on holidays? Did they just never close for any reason whatsoever?

notfromhere 4y ago

It's a romantic notion but if you simmer anything for too long it'll just be generic food water at some point

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
It’s just old timey MSG.
gfaure 4y ago
How does this make any sense? The longer you simmer something, the more concentrated the remaining material becomes.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  Volatile flavor compounds boil off as well.
- notfromhere 4y ago
  The flavor breaks down and so does the food. For example: boil potatoes for too long and more water gets into it. It'll kill the flavor and texture, so that the food tastes watery and the texture becomes soup-ey and wet.

jrochkind1 4y ago

> I think there's a reason very few restaurants serve this style of dish It is in fact quite common in some parts of China, as the OP mentions. But it's just a stock, used in other dishes, not a dish of it's own. > more specifically in the cuisines of Canton and Fujian, where there’s a rich tradition of making lou mei, or master stock, which is used to braise and poach meats. I had read about this before, I recall an article about maybe a US restaurant where the chef had brought the lou mei over from China, and the sous chefs who were tasked with keeping it going. I can't seem to track down the article now. But my understanding is that in fact very many restuarants in China do this, it's standard.

darth_avocado 4y ago
Not sure about China, but I’ve encountered local restaurants boasting broth that has continuously been cooked for decades in both Thailand and in Philippines.
hnfong 4y ago
Yep. The thing is you don't "drink" the stock (lou mei) because it's too salty. So the solid foods are taken out without much of the liquid, and when you've served all the food in a batch, you're left with ~50% volume of the stock. It's still flavorful, arguably even more so since it absorbed the other food flavors in addition to the original spices etc. So if you're operating a restaurant, you just keep the liquid, replenish it with a bit more spices and condiments, and use it again and again...
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Nice, thanks for the context! I hadn't totally realized you're cooking food in it, removing the food, then re-using the broth! i guess you must have to strain it periodically. That is admittedly a really odd practice to me! It seems like it's origin might be at least in part just to not waste the stock? But people really believe it is important for flavor? (I am not suggesting it's not, how would I know?)

basseed 4y ago

thanks for your comment, just a small correction, it's "medieval" and "palate"

metadat 4y ago
"palate" is a physiological term which describes the roof of a beings mouth. Edit: @NovemberWhiskey I didn't know it was a dual-purpose word, thanks for the correction.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  No; "palate" was correct - it's a metonym in this case.

curiousllama 4y ago

I've always thought of it more as a way to conserve the calories that food represent, rather than a delicious dish in its own right

GenerocUsername 4y ago
Agreed. It's not some ultimate dish, nor was beer some delicious delicacy. These were techniques by our not so distant ancestors to survive in far less connected, far less hospitable times and conditions.
bobthepanda 4y ago
It can preserve flavor, but it becomes concentrated as the water evaporates away, so i wouldn’t say you should ever grab a bowl of just that. Master stocks are used as a base in Chinese cooking the same way a lot of recipes already start from a stock; but it is rarer and rarer for home cooks to make stock from scratch and not just use a box from the store in the US. I have a lot of friends that categorically do not cook meat with bones in it. The Chinese one is also different from hunters’ stew in that it is a specific soup used as a base for future versions of said specific soup
- prpl 4y ago
  Aromatics also tend to escape as well, not just water. There’s some good tests out there with venting vs non-venting pressure cookers for making stock
- linsomniac 4y ago
  >It's rarer and rarer for home cooks to make stock from scratch Pity, it's really easy and super delicious. This past weekend my family was sick so I went to the store and got one of the deli roasted chickens (was in a hurry), pulled off most of the meat, and put it in a stock pot with celery, onions, carrots and some seasonings (S&P, fines herbs, star anise, bay leaves), and filled with water. Simmer for 3 hours, strain. Amazingly delicious, pretty easy, and the chicken and dumplings I made with it turned out fantastic. Pretty much any time there's a bone or carcass I'll use it to make something. Had a work lunch last week and I took the ham bone to make ham and beans. LPT: Cook with bones.

Spooky23 4y ago

A local restaurant had a minestrone soup that had been running for 10-15 years, until the place burned down. It was ridiculously good. I think the key aspect that made it good was that they served it with every meal so it turned over a lot.

Sirened 4y ago
Do you know what they did on holidays? Did they just never close for any reason whatsoever?