3 ms·

So, I can kind of understand the policy. There's not a lot of land in Seattle to go around - you are lucky enough to have some of it, and you want to build some

So, I can kind of understand the policy. There's not a lot of land in Seattle to go around - you are lucky enough to have some of it, and you want to build something tiny palpably removes potential units from the market. No one would be happy if you tore down a block of apartments in NY to put up a cute little Craftsman with room for a private dirt bike track. Well, in the same way, leaving these types of properties to grandfather into urban areas also makes no sense. That said, this also clearly sucks and is not fair. She is at least adding something that wasn't there before. So it makes no sense to pay more in taxes. If anything, it's kind of proving the value of a Land Value Tax.

jasmer 4y ago
Yes this is it. There are good reason for a lot of the 'codes' we have and it costs money to make sure things are cool. That said, I suggest as always there are 'bureaucracy' problems in our governments and processes that are severely limiting to progress. We need to figure out how to streamline and make efficiencies in a lot of these systems if we want to have a future.
carom 4y ago
>No one would be happy if you tore down a block of apartments in NY to put up a cute little Craftsman with room for a private dirt bike track. If you own the land you should be able to do what you want with it. If you want a single family home, that is fine. If you want a 10-plex, also fine. Cities are making development and renting as painful as possible then being shocked when people opt out of being landlords. If it is more desirable to have a craftsman and a dirtbike track than a multi unit building then the city's incentives are horribly skewed. One of those effectively prints money so we have to ask why someone isn't opting to do it. At the same time, it is their land and they should be able to use it how they wish.
- ancapsfascists 4y ago
  Yeah, why should we do any planning or zoning at all! Every individual is equipped with all the knowledge and expertise to make good planning decisions that impact their neighborhoods! /s
  - dgoodell 4y ago
    What is the correct amount of freedom to build? Do we have too much or too little? How do you know if we have the right amount of freedom?
  - voldacar 4y ago
  - carom 4y ago
    How is the current planning and zoning working out for affordability?
    - ancapsfascists 4y ago
      Too soon to say. Seattle just opened up zoning after fighting a bunch of nimby pushback. Prices seem to have fallen very very recently. Hopefully the upzoning helps more.
ancapsfascists 4y ago
This policy is good, and this isn't even an edge case. This is a landlord who is about to spend a million dollars on more rental units and doesn't want to provide affordable units.
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
  So what? She's trying to build an addition and rent it to her kids. Even if she was going to rent to randoms, so what? Is it better she just keeps the property as a single family home?
  - ancapsfascists 4y ago
    It's not an addition. It's a totally separate building with four rental units.
    - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
      Close enough
- legitster 4y ago
  I mean, this is an owner-occupied property. I can understand not wanting the city to force two random families to live with you. But in this case the city assessing a luxury tax for such a setup seems pretty reasonable.
  - ancapsfascists 4y ago
    She wants to build 4 rental units on a lot in downtown. That's an apartment building. Why should an apartment building with 4 units be exempt from offering affordable housing? She will not be occupying those four units. She will be staying in her fifth unit.
    - legitster 4y ago
      If I paid rent to my parents in college would that make their house a 2-unit rental? I am okay with a certain amount of gray area in the rental market, especially for informal or family situations. If these units ever hit the general market you can hit them with tighter rules later. Again, in this case, she would not be exempt, she would pay a one time fee for the housing program.
__derek__ 4y ago
King County taxes land value as part of our property taxes. If Seattle up-zoned this property, that component of the owner's taxes would increase to reflect the value of its new highest and best use.
- legitster 4y ago
  If it includes property value it's not a true Land Value Tax. The point of a Land Value Tax is that everyone gets taxed purely on the value of the land and none of the improvements. So adding more units would only decrease the per-unit tax you pay. Seattle here is attempting the same thing in broad strokes by literally taxing underdevelopment - but it's clearly not as elegant of a solution
pastor_bob 4y ago
The policy seems pretty straightforward: If you want to build a bunch of units on your property: 1. A certain percentage has to be rented at an affordable rate (for 75 years). 2. If they aren't you pay a 'fee' into an affordability fund based on how much you build. The fact they the owner claims they want to 'rent' to their kids is a red herring IMO. She wants to build 4 market rate units on her property, and not designate any of them as affordable.

jasmer 4y ago

Yes this is it. There are good reason for a lot of the 'codes' we have and it costs money to make sure things are cool. That said, I suggest as always there are 'bureaucracy' problems in our governments and processes that are severely limiting to progress. We need to figure out how to streamline and make efficiencies in a lot of these systems if we want to have a future.

carom 4y ago

>No one would be happy if you tore down a block of apartments in NY to put up a cute little Craftsman with room for a private dirt bike track. If you own the land you should be able to do what you want with it. If you want a single family home, that is fine. If you want a 10-plex, also fine. Cities are making development and renting as painful as possible then being shocked when people opt out of being landlords. If it is more desirable to have a craftsman and a dirtbike track than a multi unit building then the city's incentives are horribly skewed. One of those effectively prints money so we have to ask why someone isn't opting to do it. At the same time, it is their land and they should be able to use it how they wish.

ancapsfascists 4y ago
Yeah, why should we do any planning or zoning at all! Every individual is equipped with all the knowledge and expertise to make good planning decisions that impact their neighborhoods! /s
- dgoodell 4y ago
  What is the correct amount of freedom to build? Do we have too much or too little? How do you know if we have the right amount of freedom?
- voldacar 4y ago
- carom 4y ago
  How is the current planning and zoning working out for affordability?
  - ancapsfascists 4y ago
    Too soon to say. Seattle just opened up zoning after fighting a bunch of nimby pushback. Prices seem to have fallen very very recently. Hopefully the upzoning helps more.

ancapsfascists 4y ago

This policy is good, and this isn't even an edge case. This is a landlord who is about to spend a million dollars on more rental units and doesn't want to provide affordable units.

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
So what? She's trying to build an addition and rent it to her kids. Even if she was going to rent to randoms, so what? Is it better she just keeps the property as a single family home?
- ancapsfascists 4y ago
  It's not an addition. It's a totally separate building with four rental units.
  - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
    Close enough
legitster 4y ago
I mean, this is an owner-occupied property. I can understand not wanting the city to force two random families to live with you. But in this case the city assessing a luxury tax for such a setup seems pretty reasonable.
- ancapsfascists 4y ago
  She wants to build 4 rental units on a lot in downtown. That's an apartment building. Why should an apartment building with 4 units be exempt from offering affordable housing? She will not be occupying those four units. She will be staying in her fifth unit.
  - legitster 4y ago
    If I paid rent to my parents in college would that make their house a 2-unit rental? I am okay with a certain amount of gray area in the rental market, especially for informal or family situations. If these units ever hit the general market you can hit them with tighter rules later. Again, in this case, she would not be exempt, she would pay a one time fee for the housing program.

__derek__ 4y ago

King County taxes land value as part of our property taxes. If Seattle up-zoned this property, that component of the owner's taxes would increase to reflect the value of its new highest and best use.

legitster 4y ago
If it includes property value it's not a true Land Value Tax. The point of a Land Value Tax is that everyone gets taxed purely on the value of the land and none of the improvements. So adding more units would only decrease the per-unit tax you pay. Seattle here is attempting the same thing in broad strokes by literally taxing underdevelopment - but it's clearly not as elegant of a solution

pastor_bob 4y ago

The policy seems pretty straightforward: If you want to build a bunch of units on your property: 1. A certain percentage has to be rented at an affordable rate (for 75 years). 2. If they aren't you pay a 'fee' into an affordability fund based on how much you build. The fact they the owner claims they want to 'rent' to their kids is a red herring IMO. She wants to build 4 market rate units on her property, and not designate any of them as affordable.