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? The whole of medieval europe swarms with stories of surplus children send to fend for themselves as servants and workers abroad. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki

? The whole of medieval europe swarms with stories of surplus children send to fend for themselves as servants and workers abroad. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwabenkinder https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwabenkinder Whole areas exported there population as soldiers, mercenaries and mining people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard Most of them were like the taliban in afghanistan, interlocked in eternal holy wars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War Well obviously the taliban aint real either. A mountainous area, in eternal intertribal warfare.. not actually accepting the nation state.. ridiculous thought. The english soldiers fighting in the independence war against the americans, were partially germans, sold by in debted aristoctrats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker_(Prussia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker_(Prussia) This was the reality on the ground, even up until the 2nd worldwar. The only escape for the peasants and althose 2nd,3rd sons who were bound to the land, was to go on pilgrimages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage or to flee to the "new world" were the nicer frontier awaited them. I find the idea of a children crusadd very plausible. The crusader knights surely promised the conquered lands to peasants who would follow them. And pre-pestilence europe was certainly crowded. Idealism is nice. Success self hypnosis is nice. But not believing in the brutality of bygone reality, while some parts of it are still around you, is foolish, and spreading that foolishness, is preparing for it to repeat itself. Work hard and meaningful, if not for yourselves, then to prevent the return of the olden times.

Bouncingsoul1 4y ago
wow. almost all of your sources (except the last one, which is quite broad) misses the timeframe of "medival europe".
- emmelaich 4y ago
  Using times later than medieval reinforces the point though. Hardly irrelevant.
therealdrag0 4y ago
Check out the Wikipedia page to get a summary of the children’s crusade if you haven’t already. It was more akin to a religious-revival/evangelist movement than a military expedition afaict. Still your point stands, very plausible for young teens to be heavily involved in such things.
qwytw 4y ago
> The english soldiers fighting in the independence war against the americans, were partially germans, sold by in debted aristoctrats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker_(Prussia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker_(Prussia) What do Junkers in Prussia have to do with the Hessian mercenaries who fought in the war of independence? It was Frederick II who leased the army of Hesse-Kassel to the British. He was not some random indebted aristocrat but rather the ruler of a sovereign state. The soldiers were 'professionals' who volunteered and were paid a salary. Not (as you make it sound) random peasants conscripts sold off to pay of some debts. > This was the reality on the ground, even up until the 2nd worldwar. > The only escape for the peasants and althose 2nd,3rd sons who were bound to the land, was to go on pilgrimages Yes. The only escape for peasants in the 1800's to 1930s was to go on pilgrimages. In any case middle or upperclass people were more likely to go on pilgrimages than peasants (proportionally) even during the middle ages. Any long journey was prohibitively expensive for most people to afford. > The crusader knights surely promised the conquered lands to peasants who would follow them Generally crusader knights, especially the nobles were not too keen about taking thousands of untrained peasants who have to be fed and supplied with other provisions by someone on Crusades without providing anything in return. Generally various unorthodox/anti-establishment religious preachers like (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Hermit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Hermit) were the instigators of most 'popular' crusades. They were ussually opposed by the nobility, the clergy and the bourgeoisie. For instance Shepherds Crusades of 1251 and 1320.
- qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
  >Not (as you make it sound) random peasants conscripts sold off to pay of some debts. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldatenhandel_unter_Landgraf_Friedrich_II._von_Hessen-Kassel https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldatenhandel_unter_Landgraf_... Read the Kantonspflicht part. They were drafted peasants. >Yes. The only escape for peasants in the 1800's to >1930s was to go on pilgrimages. Read old newspapers and alamanachs. They regularly locked vagabunds up into workhouses and the "euthanization" in the camps starting 1930 was just a continuation of that policy. Religous pilgrimage, entering servitude (sailor on ships etc.) or being rich was the only way to be able to migrate over long distances.Of course there were the usual religous purges, which pushed parts of the population to migrate to "safe havens" in the local klein-staaterei. https://wiki.genealogy.net/Franken_J%C3%BCdisch https://wiki.genealogy.net/Franken_J%C3%BCdisch https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugenotten#Hugenotten_in_Deutschland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugenotten#Hugenotten_in_Deuts... >The crusader knights surely promised the conquered lands to peasants who would follow them I was wrong there. It was mostly greek-orthodox and armeniens. If you read the sources, the whole crusade affairs were a mess, regularly bogging down in local warfare and criminal activity along the road. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCrstentum_Antiochia#Geographie_und_Demographie https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCrstentum_Antiochia#Geog...

Bouncingsoul1 4y ago

wow. almost all of your sources (except the last one, which is quite broad) misses the timeframe of "medival europe".

emmelaich 4y ago
Using times later than medieval reinforces the point though. Hardly irrelevant.

therealdrag0 4y ago

Check out the Wikipedia page to get a summary of the children’s crusade if you haven’t already. It was more akin to a religious-revival/evangelist movement than a military expedition afaict. Still your point stands, very plausible for young teens to be heavily involved in such things.

qwytw 4y ago

> The english soldiers fighting in the independence war against the americans, were partially germans, sold by in debted aristoctrats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker_(Prussia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker_(Prussia) What do Junkers in Prussia have to do with the Hessian mercenaries who fought in the war of independence? It was Frederick II who leased the army of Hesse-Kassel to the British. He was not some random indebted aristocrat but rather the ruler of a sovereign state. The soldiers were 'professionals' who volunteered and were paid a salary. Not (as you make it sound) random peasants conscripts sold off to pay of some debts. > This was the reality on the ground, even up until the 2nd worldwar. > The only escape for the peasants and althose 2nd,3rd sons who were bound to the land, was to go on pilgrimages Yes. The only escape for peasants in the 1800's to 1930s was to go on pilgrimages. In any case middle or upperclass people were more likely to go on pilgrimages than peasants (proportionally) even during the middle ages. Any long journey was prohibitively expensive for most people to afford. > The crusader knights surely promised the conquered lands to peasants who would follow them Generally crusader knights, especially the nobles were not too keen about taking thousands of untrained peasants who have to be fed and supplied with other provisions by someone on Crusades without providing anything in return. Generally various unorthodox/anti-establishment religious preachers like (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Hermit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Hermit) were the instigators of most 'popular' crusades. They were ussually opposed by the nobility, the clergy and the bourgeoisie. For instance Shepherds Crusades of 1251 and 1320.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
>Not (as you make it sound) random peasants conscripts sold off to pay of some debts. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldatenhandel_unter_Landgraf_Friedrich_II._von_Hessen-Kassel https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldatenhandel_unter_Landgraf_... Read the Kantonspflicht part. They were drafted peasants. >Yes. The only escape for peasants in the 1800's to >1930s was to go on pilgrimages. Read old newspapers and alamanachs. They regularly locked vagabunds up into workhouses and the "euthanization" in the camps starting 1930 was just a continuation of that policy. Religous pilgrimage, entering servitude (sailor on ships etc.) or being rich was the only way to be able to migrate over long distances.Of course there were the usual religous purges, which pushed parts of the population to migrate to "safe havens" in the local klein-staaterei. https://wiki.genealogy.net/Franken_J%C3%BCdisch https://wiki.genealogy.net/Franken_J%C3%BCdisch https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugenotten#Hugenotten_in_Deutschland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugenotten#Hugenotten_in_Deuts... >The crusader knights surely promised the conquered lands to peasants who would follow them I was wrong there. It was mostly greek-orthodox and armeniens. If you read the sources, the whole crusade affairs were a mess, regularly bogging down in local warfare and criminal activity along the road. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCrstentum_Antiochia#Geographie_und_Demographie https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCrstentum_Antiochia#Geog...