3 ms·

>Until late 2018, for instance, Epic automatically stored the credit card information for anyone who made a single purchase in Fortnite and didn't require the C

>Until late 2018, for instance, Epic automatically stored the credit card information for anyone who made a single purchase in Fortnite and didn't require the CVV security information for further purchases. That made it easy for many children to make additional purchases without their parents' consent, according to the FTC. Epic also drew criticism from the FTC for putting the "Purchase" button for in-game items right next to the "preview styles" button and offering no subsequent purchase confirmation prompt in the case of misplaced clicks. And while Epic introduced an "Undo Purchase" button in July 2019, it was eventually made much less prominent and harder for customers to find. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/12/epic-will-pay-520-million-to-settle-ftc-privacy-payment-complaints https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/12/epic-will-pay-520-mil... This is a company that should be able to bypass app store restrictions?

lapcat 4y ago
> This is a company that should be able to bypass app store restrictions? Every company should be able to bypass app store restrictions. I don't think the question is even framed correctly. Every iPhone owner should be able to bypass app store restrictions. Developers doing so is just a consequence of consumer choice.
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  Sorry, but I prefer the ability to do things like easily reverse fraudulent in app purchases, instantly cancel subscriptions without a hassle, and say no to location tracking without the app in question being allowed to drop functionality if I do so.
  - kevingadd 4y ago
    Tracking protection can and should be done at the OS level, not at the store level. Even Windows has this. Canceling a Fortnite subscription is as simple via them as it is on any other storefront: https://www.epicgames.com/help/en-US/fortnite-c5719335176219/fortnite-crew-c5719379485083/how-can-i-cancel-my-fortnite-crew-subscription-a5720438130715 https://www.epicgames.com/help/en-US/fortnite-c5719335176219... So all that's left is reversing purchases. You can do that through your bank or credit card issuer for any fraudulent purchase, if you want Apple to act as that gatekeeper instead you should make purchases via Apple. Are you saying all vendors should be required to hand 30% of all their revenues to Apple so it is slightly easier for you to reverse a purchase, even though there are already well-tested universal channels for doing it? I've had to reverse purchases before without dealing with Apple and it has always been a smooth process. Basically your argument seems to boil down to "my convenience justifies a 30% tax on all app developers". Are you in favor of moves like Apple requiring a 30% tax on IRL event tickets sold via services like Facebook, even though Apple provides no services to the live event operator other than payment processing? Apple even prohibited Facebook from disclosing the tax's existence.
    - GeekyBear 4y ago
      > Tracking protection can and should be done at the OS level How does the OS force an app not to disable functionality if you refuse to allow tracking? >Canceling a Fortnite subscription is as simple via them as it is on any other storefront Are we pretending that there is no such thing as a company that makes cancelling a subscription as difficult as possible? >You can do that through your bank or credit card issuer for any fraudulent purchase If you read the article linked above, one of the reasons Epic was fined half a billion dollars was that anyone who got their credit card issuer to reverse fraudulent purchases found that Epic banned accounts for that. You seem to be ignoring reality here.
      - galleywest200 4y ago
        They did get their money back, so that point still stands. They just happened to have their accounts banned for this. However, this situation is likely due to corporate America's toxicity towards chargebacks which are commonly issued due to the corporation's incompetence or malice.
        GeekyBear 4y ago
        No, the point would stand if you could get a refund, cancel subscriptions, and withhold personal data from app developers without retaliation. The app store allows these sorts of things today. If you have other priorities, other device options exist.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > If you have other priorities, other device options exist. There are a number of factors and tradeoffs involved in deciding whether or not to buy an iPhone. Let's not pretend it all comes down to one and only one thing. Not to mention that Android sideloading is kind of crappy and limited. Much more limited than Mac or Windows "sideloading". People seem to forget that Epic is suing Google too.
        4y ago

lapcat 4y ago

> This is a company that should be able to bypass app store restrictions? Every company should be able to bypass app store restrictions. I don't think the question is even framed correctly. Every iPhone owner should be able to bypass app store restrictions. Developers doing so is just a consequence of consumer choice.

GeekyBear 4y ago
Sorry, but I prefer the ability to do things like easily reverse fraudulent in app purchases, instantly cancel subscriptions without a hassle, and say no to location tracking without the app in question being allowed to drop functionality if I do so.
- kevingadd 4y ago
  Tracking protection can and should be done at the OS level, not at the store level. Even Windows has this. Canceling a Fortnite subscription is as simple via them as it is on any other storefront: https://www.epicgames.com/help/en-US/fortnite-c5719335176219/fortnite-crew-c5719379485083/how-can-i-cancel-my-fortnite-crew-subscription-a5720438130715 https://www.epicgames.com/help/en-US/fortnite-c5719335176219... So all that's left is reversing purchases. You can do that through your bank or credit card issuer for any fraudulent purchase, if you want Apple to act as that gatekeeper instead you should make purchases via Apple. Are you saying all vendors should be required to hand 30% of all their revenues to Apple so it is slightly easier for you to reverse a purchase, even though there are already well-tested universal channels for doing it? I've had to reverse purchases before without dealing with Apple and it has always been a smooth process. Basically your argument seems to boil down to "my convenience justifies a 30% tax on all app developers". Are you in favor of moves like Apple requiring a 30% tax on IRL event tickets sold via services like Facebook, even though Apple provides no services to the live event operator other than payment processing? Apple even prohibited Facebook from disclosing the tax's existence.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    > Tracking protection can and should be done at the OS level How does the OS force an app not to disable functionality if you refuse to allow tracking? >Canceling a Fortnite subscription is as simple via them as it is on any other storefront Are we pretending that there is no such thing as a company that makes cancelling a subscription as difficult as possible? >You can do that through your bank or credit card issuer for any fraudulent purchase If you read the article linked above, one of the reasons Epic was fined half a billion dollars was that anyone who got their credit card issuer to reverse fraudulent purchases found that Epic banned accounts for that. You seem to be ignoring reality here.
    - galleywest200 4y ago
      They did get their money back, so that point still stands. They just happened to have their accounts banned for this. However, this situation is likely due to corporate America's toxicity towards chargebacks which are commonly issued due to the corporation's incompetence or malice.
      - GeekyBear 4y ago
        No, the point would stand if you could get a refund, cancel subscriptions, and withhold personal data from app developers without retaliation. The app store allows these sorts of things today. If you have other priorities, other device options exist.
        lapcat 4y ago
        > If you have other priorities, other device options exist. There are a number of factors and tradeoffs involved in deciding whether or not to buy an iPhone. Let's not pretend it all comes down to one and only one thing. Not to mention that Android sideloading is kind of crappy and limited. Much more limited than Mac or Windows "sideloading". People seem to forget that Epic is suing Google too.
        4y ago