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The big difference I see with the case you're considering is that humans have agency, and can choose for themselves whether to move or stay. (Even though harsh

The big difference I see with the case you're considering is that humans have agency, and can choose for themselves whether to move or stay. (Even though harsh circumstances might strongly influence their decision - still, it's their choice by their evaluation of the trade-offs.) With chimps, we are not asking them what they want; we're making the decision for them. Therefore we carry all of the burden of responsibility that would usually rest with the individual making the decision for themselves. Indeed the only reason they are in this captive environment is because we kidnapped/bred them and put them there. So that's another layer of responsibility that we have for their situation that doesn't apply to normal human decisions.

kortilla 4y ago
> Even though harsh circumstances might strongly influence their decision - still, it's their choice by their evaluation of the trade-offs. Not for children, members of the military, incarcerated people, people served evictions, etc.
- gibolt 4y ago
  The rule in question for the chimps applies to the whole population, not the exceptions that mostly make sense.
idiotsecant 4y ago
Do humans get to choose whether they move or stay? I think there's plenty of seniors in the worst kinds of old people homes that would rather not be there.
- bluGill 4y ago
  In the worst cases they don't have enough mind left to care. (The worst kind of places they drug them that much, otherwise the residents may or may not have enough mind to care). Above that though there is a large range. Many elderly realize they are running out of ability to care for themselves and move to some form of assisted living where help is on staff, and there are lots of people to talk to - these are generally nice places to live as they need to attract people. However as the body declines those places don't have the ability to care for you and you have to move on, and most are not willing to admit they need that level of care (and such places often are not as nice: you are forced into them instead of invited in)
- theptip 4y ago
  Indeed, by the same argument I made above, in any situation where a human doesn't have agency in a major decision that dramatically affects their quality of life, then the decision-maker has increased moral responsibility/culpability for the outcome.
polishdude20 4y ago
That makes complete sense

kortilla 4y ago

> Even though harsh circumstances might strongly influence their decision - still, it's their choice by their evaluation of the trade-offs. Not for children, members of the military, incarcerated people, people served evictions, etc.

gibolt 4y ago
The rule in question for the chimps applies to the whole population, not the exceptions that mostly make sense.

idiotsecant 4y ago

Do humans get to choose whether they move or stay? I think there's plenty of seniors in the worst kinds of old people homes that would rather not be there.

bluGill 4y ago
In the worst cases they don't have enough mind left to care. (The worst kind of places they drug them that much, otherwise the residents may or may not have enough mind to care). Above that though there is a large range. Many elderly realize they are running out of ability to care for themselves and move to some form of assisted living where help is on staff, and there are lots of people to talk to - these are generally nice places to live as they need to attract people. However as the body declines those places don't have the ability to care for you and you have to move on, and most are not willing to admit they need that level of care (and such places often are not as nice: you are forced into them instead of invited in)
theptip 4y ago
Indeed, by the same argument I made above, in any situation where a human doesn't have agency in a major decision that dramatically affects their quality of life, then the decision-maker has increased moral responsibility/culpability for the outcome.

polishdude20 4y ago

That makes complete sense