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The evidence is that an entire class of multi billion dollar companies based on vegetarian and vegan food alternatives exists and they will all go bankrupt or b

The evidence is that an entire class of multi billion dollar companies based on vegetarian and vegan food alternatives exists and they will all go bankrupt or be acquired for pennies on the dollar. So how did VCs get that so wrong other than turning a blind eye to the obviously terrible business models and investing because of their moral beliefs?

TheCondor 4y ago
Catering to vegetarianism is virtue signaling? Aren’t there entire religions (real ones, not, you know, prosperity gospel derivatives) that encourage people to eat more plants? In addition there are lots of nonreligious that support the science that indicates that it is a viable and healthy way to live with lower cases of certain types of heart disease and certain types of cancer and less obesity. I’m certain I know of conservative nonmeat eaters. I sort of expect the market to solve these things. Someone placed a bet, once we process the hell out of soy and make it behave like a hamburger, the entire world will be willing to pay more money for a burger that might not be healthier but will have less saturated fat and no animal product in it. They raised some capital, proved they could build the product, spent and invested to get it in stores and fast food restaurants. Along the way they probably bumped into numerous issues scaling a food enterprise but somehow have managed to stay pretty close to the mission. Turns out that might be a bad bet. What if the veggie burgers were cheaper? What if you have to use GMOs to achieve that price point? Or maybe the idea isn’t that great or the product has some deficiencies, maybe those can be repaired. That’s why we do it. Was the investment because of “moral beliefs” or because it takes billions to get a food to that market? The TAM here is interesting too, it just well distributed which is what makes it expensive.
- friedman23 4y ago
  > Catering to vegetarianism is virtue signaling? Yes, it is. All the stuff you wrote makes 0 sense in the context of what we are discussing, I suspect you are very deep in the bubble. >Was the investment because of “moral beliefs” or because it takes billions to get a food to that market? You don't invest in something "to get it to market". You invest in something to make money. Food is a notoriously difficult and unprofitable market.
rdtwo 4y ago
Are you sure they got it wrong? Most of the unicorn investors had a plan to pump and dump. The retail esg pension fund typically gets stuck with the losses
tshaddox 4y ago
But virtue signaling doesn’t mean “investing in a company that ends up failing,” does it? I don’t see anything in your comment that actually connects any investments to virtue signaling, which is a term with an actual definition.
michaelt 4y ago
They might have believed: * This tastes almost as good as real meat, and better than some shitty burgers I've had. With some development it'll be indistinguishable. * I'm not a vegan myself, but vegan products are a growth sector so we can make money there. I've heard veganism is popular with young people who worry about the environment, so the fact none of my 60-year-old golf buddies are vegan doesn't mean it's not a good opportunity. * The world's population is rising, and countries like India and China have a growing middle class. Even ignoring veganism and environmentalism, demand for meat is likely to rise. A company with good quality substitutes and the ability to increase production fast could be well placed to capitalise on this. * Lab-grown meat could revolutionise how we eat - why shouldn't every steak be perfectly marbled A5 Wagyu Ribeye, if it's being 3D printed in a lab? People who invest in the right company could make a fortune! This company isn't precisely that, but they've got a product I can taste right now, and it tastes pretty good to me. * I need to polish my reputation, with some ethical investments to counterbalance all that money I've given to scumbags and scam artists. I'll invest the loose change I found down the back of my couch in this burger company.
- friedman23 4y ago
  - malfist 4y ago
    You seem to have an agenda, perhaps Hacker News is not a place to be discussing this for you. Do you really think increasing demand for meat is not a good reason to invest in a meat alternative product?
    - MisterMower 4y ago
      > You seem to have an agenda, perhaps Hacker News is not a place to be discussing this for you. I hate to break this to you, but this is the comment section. Everybody has an agenda. If you don’t like his agenda, explain why he’s wrong. No need to beat around the bush.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
MrMan 4y ago
who gets mad about virtue signaling except people who lack virtue

TheCondor 4y ago

Catering to vegetarianism is virtue signaling? Aren’t there entire religions (real ones, not, you know, prosperity gospel derivatives) that encourage people to eat more plants? In addition there are lots of nonreligious that support the science that indicates that it is a viable and healthy way to live with lower cases of certain types of heart disease and certain types of cancer and less obesity. I’m certain I know of conservative nonmeat eaters. I sort of expect the market to solve these things. Someone placed a bet, once we process the hell out of soy and make it behave like a hamburger, the entire world will be willing to pay more money for a burger that might not be healthier but will have less saturated fat and no animal product in it. They raised some capital, proved they could build the product, spent and invested to get it in stores and fast food restaurants. Along the way they probably bumped into numerous issues scaling a food enterprise but somehow have managed to stay pretty close to the mission. Turns out that might be a bad bet. What if the veggie burgers were cheaper? What if you have to use GMOs to achieve that price point? Or maybe the idea isn’t that great or the product has some deficiencies, maybe those can be repaired. That’s why we do it. Was the investment because of “moral beliefs” or because it takes billions to get a food to that market? The TAM here is interesting too, it just well distributed which is what makes it expensive.

friedman23 4y ago
> Catering to vegetarianism is virtue signaling? Yes, it is. All the stuff you wrote makes 0 sense in the context of what we are discussing, I suspect you are very deep in the bubble. >Was the investment because of “moral beliefs” or because it takes billions to get a food to that market? You don't invest in something "to get it to market". You invest in something to make money. Food is a notoriously difficult and unprofitable market.

rdtwo 4y ago

Are you sure they got it wrong? Most of the unicorn investors had a plan to pump and dump. The retail esg pension fund typically gets stuck with the losses

tshaddox 4y ago

But virtue signaling doesn’t mean “investing in a company that ends up failing,” does it? I don’t see anything in your comment that actually connects any investments to virtue signaling, which is a term with an actual definition.

michaelt 4y ago

They might have believed: * This tastes almost as good as real meat, and better than some shitty burgers I've had. With some development it'll be indistinguishable. * I'm not a vegan myself, but vegan products are a growth sector so we can make money there. I've heard veganism is popular with young people who worry about the environment, so the fact none of my 60-year-old golf buddies are vegan doesn't mean it's not a good opportunity. * The world's population is rising, and countries like India and China have a growing middle class. Even ignoring veganism and environmentalism, demand for meat is likely to rise. A company with good quality substitutes and the ability to increase production fast could be well placed to capitalise on this. * Lab-grown meat could revolutionise how we eat - why shouldn't every steak be perfectly marbled A5 Wagyu Ribeye, if it's being 3D printed in a lab? People who invest in the right company could make a fortune! This company isn't precisely that, but they've got a product I can taste right now, and it tastes pretty good to me. * I need to polish my reputation, with some ethical investments to counterbalance all that money I've given to scumbags and scam artists. I'll invest the loose change I found down the back of my couch in this burger company.

friedman23 4y ago
- malfist 4y ago
  You seem to have an agenda, perhaps Hacker News is not a place to be discussing this for you. Do you really think increasing demand for meat is not a good reason to invest in a meat alternative product?
  - MisterMower 4y ago
    > You seem to have an agenda, perhaps Hacker News is not a place to be discussing this for you. I hate to break this to you, but this is the comment section. Everybody has an agenda. If you don’t like his agenda, explain why he’s wrong. No need to beat around the bush.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

MrMan 4y ago

who gets mad about virtue signaling except people who lack virtue